Question about axonometric view

[saso]

It could make sense. One potential issue i see is user has to read it, understand it, visualize it...

P.S. Maybe some sort of combination or something entirely different.

I did a quick variation and updated the post...

Edit: this naming SW, SE,... in the icons would actually not work well with translations

[jmaustpc]

It could make sense. One potential issue i see is user has to read it, understand it, visualize it...

P.S. Maybe some sort of combination or something entirely different.

I did a quick variation and updated the post...

Posting high resolution pictures of your icons is largely a waste of time...they have to be able to still work at 16px. You should export at 16px and see if they are still legible and post the 16px images ...in some cases 22px may be useful.

If you create in Inkscape you can enable "icon view" which will in real time show you what they will look like at typical icon resolutions. If you post the svg files other could do the same.

Edit: this naming SW, SE,... in the icons would actually not work well with translations

Yes, you are right, you can not create language specific icons for FreeCAD...although there are a limited number of generally accepted exceptions like numbers in dimensions and "T" for text.

[jmaustpc]

The change is rather small: git commit 7c517e762099
So, before changing this back and forth it should be checked if the "standard" is different in different countries or continents.

No, the look of the icons do not need to be reworked, the code needs to be put back as it was, if it was changed.

Hi guys
Werner, can we agree then to return this to the way FreeCAD has always been, at least for now, so that all the icons etc. are correct in a standard default new install of FreeCAD?

Then if others want a different default axonometric view, then can we agree to create this via an option? That way when all the hundreds of icons are showing the wrong projection and lighting, the user will be understanding of the inconsistency since they changed away from a default setting.

If FreeCAD is to change the "default" then I would feel ethically obliged to rewrite all those icons to change their projection and lighting..... a big job, unless FreeCAD was to allow changing of icon sets, I can't imagine someone being motivated to do all this work when the result would still be wrong for a sizeable portion of the users.....including us poor Aussies...but then being "down under" one would probably expect us to have a different view point


To be clear, I do not have a problem with someone wanting to offer extra selectable axonometric view directions nor do I have a problem with offering a different axonometric axonometric view as a settable option .... but I do have concerns with the change to the default setting being changed in a new standard FreeCAD install.

Jim

[Joyas]

I prefer these icons, because they doesn't have text (If you don't have text, you don't need to translate it):

Icons need more work but i guess we should move in this direction:

SampleView.png

Maybe the arrows should be a bit bigger, but I like it.

[triplus]

It could make sense. One potential issue i see is user has to read it, understand it, visualize it...

P.S. Maybe some sort of combination or something entirely different.

I did a quick variation and updated the post...

Edit: this naming SW, SE,... in the icons would actually not work well with translations

I agree and i was thinking of this as we don't translate icons and therefore that is additional source of potential confusion. Names therefore should be limited to tooltips for this set of icons.

Werner, can we agree then to return this to the way FreeCAD has always been, at least for now, so that all the icons etc. are correct in a standard default new install of FreeCAD?

I think we better solve the issue now as if we don't do that we will have to return to this in the future. We have basic understanding of the issue and what needs to change to improve things. Therefore i don't see any obstacles in the way to improve the situation.

Then if others want a different default axonometric view, then can we agree to create this via an option? That way when all the hundreds of icons are showing the wrong projection and lighting, the user will be understanding of the inconsistency since they changed away from a default setting.

There is no such thing as default axonometric view and we are talking about 6 to 10 icons.

If FreeCAD is to change the "default" then I would feel ethically obliged to rewrite all those icons to change their projection and lighting..... a big job, unless FreeCAD was to allow changing of icon sets, I can't imagine someone being motivated to do all this work when the result would still be wrong for a sizeable portion of the users.....including us poor Aussies...but then being "down under" one would probably expect us to have a different view point

Can you give example of an icon that would need to change beyond the ones in view toolbar.

Maybe the arrows should be a bit bigger, but I like it.

Great. I will leave the icons in this state for a day or two before doing any changes and additional work to see if any additional users would like to give more suggestions first.

[rockn]

The change is rather small: git commit 7c517e762099
So, before changing this back and forth it should be checked if the "standard" is different in different countries or continents.

No, the look of the icons do not need to be reworked, the code needs to be put back as it was, if it was changed.

Hi guys
Werner, can we agree then to return this to the way FreeCAD has always been, at least for now, so that all the icons etc. are correct in a standard default new install of FreeCAD?

Then if others want a different default axonometric view, then can we agree to create this via an option? That way when all the hundreds of icons are showing the wrong projection and lighting, the user will be understanding of the inconsistency since they changed away from a default setting.

If FreeCAD is to change the "default" then I would feel ethically obliged to rewrite all those icons to change their projection and lighting..... a big job, unless FreeCAD was to allow changing of icon sets, I can't imagine someone being motivated to do all this work when the result would still be wrong for a sizeable portion of the users.....including us poor Aussies...but then being "down under" one would probably expect us to have a different view point


To be clear, I do not have a problem with someone wanting to offer extra selectable axonometric view directions nor do I have a problem with offering a different axonometric axonometric view as a settable option .... but I do have concerns with the change to the default setting being changed in a new standard FreeCAD install.

Jim

BIG +1

[triplus]

BIG +1

To what point exactly? The reason i am asking is to get as much feedback as possible. As for things changing. They already changed and in a way that indicates they will need to change again as currently nobody from 2 groups of users is happy and i doubt the suggested solution in making one group of FreeCAD users happy is optimal as the solution to make both is easy.

P.S. If there really is an issue and more icons would need work if we change icons in view toolbar i would like to see that icons first. Maybe if the number is small i can do the needed changes. But first i need to understand the issue.

[rockn]

To what point exactly?

To all points.

Werner, can we agree then to return this to the way FreeCAD has always been, at least for now, so that all the icons etc. are correct in a standard default new install of FreeCAD?

+1. I don't know how often you use FreeCAD, but the actual change made a lot of change from a user point of view. (And without improvement).

Then if others want a different default axonometric view, then can we agree to create this via an option? That way when all the hundreds of icons are showing the wrong projection and lighting, the user will be understanding of the inconsistency since they changed away from a default setting.

+1. Make it as an option.

If FreeCAD is to change the "default" then I would feel ethically obliged to rewrite all those icons to change their projection and lighting..... a big job, unless FreeCAD was to allow changing of icon sets, I can't imagine someone being motivated to do all this work when the result would still be wrong for a sizeable portion of the users.....including us poor Aussies...but then being "down under" one would probably expect us to have a different view point

I saw the mase branch to start changing at least the position of the icon to match the new standard 3D view, but it still some change to do. For example, the sketcher creation.
And what is the improvement of this ?
Can I repeat we are talking about technical drawing stuff and want to apply it on an arbitrary 3D scene ?
And the actual drawing workbench don't care about the current 3d view.
Do you know that in the hundreds of FreeCAD functions there is only ONE that use the current view for projection? And this is accessible only via option...

To be clear, I do not have a problem with someone wanting to offer extra selectable axonometric view directions nor do I have a problem with offering a different axonometric axonometric view as a settable option .... but I do have concerns with the change to the default setting being changed in a new standard FreeCAD install.

Same, please, let the default setting as it was before...

[triplus]

I don't know how often you use FreeCAD, but the actual change made a lot of change from a user point of view. (And without improvement).

I agree on this up to a point.

The change Werner introduced is basically still aligned with current axonometric icon in view toolbar. The issue is other 6 view icons on view toolbar are currently biased to one specific axonometric view. Lets say half of the world is accustomed to that axonometric view when doing drawings and the other half of the world is accustomed to different axonometric view perception when doing drawings.

You say that is not important:

Can I repeat we are talking about technical drawing stuff and want to apply it on an arbitrary 3D scene ?
And the actual drawing workbench don't care about the current 3d view.

As we are talking about 3D View and not drawing views. Are you sure it is not important and confusing to follow one accustomization when modelling in 3D View and after switching to another accustomization when doing drawings? Imagine you would need to use inches as a unit in 3D View and after when doing drawings you would use millimetres.

Make it as an option.

What would that option do? Would it be in preferences? Will documentation have 2 icons for the same view? Will there be 2 documentations?

Why if the solution is quite simple? Provide 2 predefined axonometric views (SE, SW) by default and reduce the bias in other 6 view icons. By doing that the problem is solved or am i missing something?

Providing NW and NE axonometric views therefore isn't strictly needed. I just find them convenient. Maybe we could add them but not by default on view toolbar. Therefore user can make custom toolbar with all 4 axonometric views on it without writing any macros before!

I saw the mase branch to start changing at least the position of the icon to match the new standard 3D view, but it still some change to do. For example, the sketcher creation.

If you are talking about the dialogue only swapping current icons with new icons for view toolbar would be needed. No code change there and no duplication of work with the view icons needed.

And what is the improvement of this ?

FreeCAD not lacking anymore in this area as it does now.

Same, please, let the default setting as it was before...

What about the other half of the world?

P.S. Anyway as for the icon suggestions that is still opened. This week i will invest some time in making another sample toolbar based on the feedback given. If somebody else doesn't step in before me doing that...

[rockn]

I don't see why it's a matter of half of the world against the other half.
Each 3D software have their default "axonometric" and users deal with that for modelling purpose. I know Cadwork (a wood carpentry software) that is sell all over the world and customers deal with the default provided "axonometric" view. They deal with it because they can make all technical drawings they want depending the drawing's rules in their country or the drawing's rules in their client's country.
The 3D view is not an exchange format, this is why there is no rules for that.
Technical drawings are an exchange format this is why there is rules. And documents provided by mase, for example, are talking about technical drawing.
So why are we trying to apply it to the 3D view ?

I'm just thinking this is a waste of time.

Now I have not a strong opinion on this, I can deal with my brain to adapt to the new default position of the camera. Let's see how other users will react with that on the next release...

About icons : i like how it is now (let say the 0.15 release) because when you set the camera to "axonometric" the fast access icon (the 6 icons) match very well wich plan you can access in relation with the axo view. No thinking is needed.
With the set of icons provided by triplus and also saso this not possible anymore. For example make a 10x10x10 cube, set the camera to "axonometric" view, now how can you guess wich face (left or right) you will be front of when clicking the first icon.

But I like the idea to have acces to the four orientations of an "axonometric" view.

In this post I place "axonometric" between "" because I don't care how it is called in the 3D view context. But I really understand andd do care that in technical drawing this is really important.