Message to the Developers

Have some feature requests, feedback, cool stuff to share, or want to know where FreeCAD is going? This is the place.
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Blakeo44
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Message to the Developers

Post by Blakeo44 »

I love that this software is free. But I hate how difficult everything is to use! I currently use both AlphaCAM and Metalix programs(CAD) and yes they are both 95% designed to be 2D so I thought I might download FreeCAD and give it a try. First impressions-

1. All the symbols are pretty clear but not as to the point as they should be. Also too many actions are required to even do the simple things. Not user friendly at all. Not digging it at all.

2. Even trying to use the most basic tools such as lines, and squares proved to be a challenge!! This is a 3D drawing program so I hope the people designing this thing would understand (AND MAKE IMPROVEMENTS) that to get to 3D, you might first want to start with a form of 2D drawing. Ex: I want to make a line, or square etc. I want to be able to click the symbol for my desired action, and without further clicking or navigation DO WHAT I CLICKED ON. Like when I click line, it should pop up the X, Y, and Z axis boxes for (1st where I want to start, then where I want the line to end). No other action should be necessary. This goes for ALL basic geometry functions. I also noticed the Endpoint button sucks and just does not work right. I almost have to completely cover the endpoint with my mouse in order for it to understand, YES that is the endpoint I want to click. Again should be a lot easier and the highlight function should start to light up further away. You can always zoom in further to get a closer and more detailed view of where you are clicking to.

3. I like the workbench idea FreeCAD came up with. I also think that each workbench is kind of slapped together and again is not clearly put together. When I first looked at them I didn't know which one to use just to start drawing a simple box, so how user friendly is that?

4. Cubes(And other 3D geometry's). When I click cube it automatically just plots a cube! Whats up with that?? The user should ALWAYS have a feeling of control over the program. Ex: I want to draw a cube. I would want the order of operations( From FreeCAD) to be in this order.
A. Click Cube
B. Dimension cube location
C. Dimension cube overall dimensions
D. Enter to plot
DONE!

5. I cant import or export files!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6. I want to do everything on the drawing screen. I dont want to have to enter in weird codes or macros(Whatever that is). Just too much computer geek stuff happening for everyone to keep up, including me.

7. Overall I think the FreeCAD program is heading in a good direction. It does need a lot of features modified, some features simplified and best of all a TRAINING PROGRAM! I cant tell you how many tutorials Ive tried to watch and still most of the stuff just seem complicated to me. PLEASE, PLEASE FIX AND UPDATE!

Hope my input helps to improve this cool software.
Last edited by danielfalck on Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: changed the case of subject title from all caps
danielfalck
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Re: Message to the Developers

Post by danielfalck »

Thanks for your input. A lot of aspects of CAD is complex - developing, using, understanding. I use FreeCAD, DraftSight, and a few other CADCAM programs at home and Pro/E, DraftSight, and a few other CADCAM programs at work. I think the developers are on the right track with FreeCAD. It does have it's rough spots, but it's getting there. Pro/E has it's rough spots, but it's very powerful. I think the developers of FreeCAD are taking the CATIA, NX, Pro/E road more than the Autocad/DraftSight/2D CAD road. I am glad that they are doing that.
As to your bullet points, I don't agree with you on most :)
-and I can export and import ...
What version are you using on what operating system?
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NormandC
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Re: Message to the Developers

Post by NormandC »

danielfalck was much more lenient than me in approving your post. I wouldn't have as I found it obnoxious.

Do you realize how annoying your use of ALL CAPS is??? And to barge in here without first having done your homework, that is: asking questions.

We get it, FreeCAD is not as polished as commercial software, which is why we have an active forum to help users. But they need to ask questions for us to help.

But no, instead you chose to make a rant as your first post here. :roll:
Blakeo44 wrote:Hope my input helps to improve this cool software.
There is nothing new in your post, and the way you formulated it made sure that many of us won't take it seriously. I certainly won't. But I'm not a developer.
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quick61
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Re: Message to the Developers

Post by quick61 »

I love that this software is free. But I hate how difficult everything is to use!
Hi Blakeo44. I'll go through some of the points you brought up and offer some possible solutions for you to try, but first this statement above. There is a saying that I like to quote that rings true with at least 95% of all CAd programs.

"Real CAD is hard!"

That is not to say it is impossible, but there is a learning curve, and once you understand the basics of FreeCAD, I think most of your current impressions of the software will melt away. :)
1. All the symbols are pretty clear but not as to the point as they should be. Also too many actions are required to even do the simple things. Not user friendly at all. Not digging it at all.
FreeCAD is better than some with it's use of Icons, if that is what your referring to when you say "symbols". As I just said above, once you get over the basic learning curve, they will become second nature. I have no idea as to what simple thing your trying to accomplish that seems to take too many actions, but once you start using FreeCAD, you will quickly find that there is most always more than one way to do the same task. Often there are 3 or more ways to arrive at the same end result, and as one's experience with the program increases, which way is the best to perform the given task will become increasingly clear.
2. Even trying to use the most basic tools such as lines, and squares proved to be a challenge!! This is a 3D drawing program so I hope the people designing this thing would understand (AND MAKE IMPROVEMENTS) that to get to 3D, you might first want to start with a form of 2D drawing. Ex: I want to make a line, or square etc. I want to be able to click the symbol for my desired action, and without further clicking or navigation DO WHAT I CLICKED ON. Like when I click line, it should pop up the X, Y, and Z axis boxes for (1st where I want to start, then where I want the line to end). No other action should be necessary.
Um... FreeCAD does just that. Sense you have not provided which version you are using, it's hard to say what your problems might be. Could just be a View > Views setting that is not turned on or a setting in Edit > Preferences, if your talking about using the Draft Workbench, that is not set. See screenshot below. -
Draft_Line_Dialog.png
Draft_Line_Dialog.png (14.59 KiB) Viewed 2693 times
I also noticed the Endpoint button sucks and just does not work right. I almost have to completely cover the endpoint with my mouse in order for it to understand, YES that is the endpoint I want to click. Again should be a lot easier and the highlight function should start to light up further away. You can always zoom in further to get a closer and more detailed view of where you are clicking to.
This is a common complaint with users that are not familiar with FreeCAD's Draft Workbench. I am willing to bet that you have several or all snap operations enabled at once. Try turning ALL of them off except for the End Snap. Then see how the snap tool works. If you have other Snaps turned on, especially the Passive Snap. you will get the behavior your seeing. Nothing wrong with the software, just user inexperience. I will admit that the snap enabled / disabled states of the icons could be a little more visually pronounced, but other than that, it works very well.
3. I like the workbench idea FreeCAD came up with. I also think that each workbench is kind of slapped together and again is not clearly put together. When I first looked at them I didn't know which one to use just to start drawing a simple box, so how user friendly is that?
Again, I refer back to the statement "real CAD is hard". Any CAD interface, and any complex programs interface for that matter, can be overwhelming at first. Want to give your head a real spin? Grab a current copy of Blender and give it a go. ;)

We have a very active Help section in this forum with a number of experienced users that volunteer a LOT of time to helping out new users. There are a good number of videos on YouTube and the like that will help get you started, as well as the FreeCAD Wiki. Simple problems like this can and most likely will be answered very quickly there.
4. Cubes(And other 3D geometry's). When I click cube it automatically just plots a cube! Whats up with that?? The user should ALWAYS have a feeling of control over the program. Ex: I want to draw a cube. I would want the order of operations( From FreeCAD) to be in this order.
A. Click Cube
B. Dimension cube location
C. Dimension cube overall dimensions
D. Enter to plot
DONE!
OK, it could be done that way, but it's just as easy to produce the Cube like it does, and then simply adjust its dimensions. The workflow goes like this-

A. Click Cube (Basic Cube appears)
B. Dimension Cube (with instant visual feedback as to what the dimension changes are actually doing)
C. Place the Cube with either Edit > Placement dialog or Snap into place with Draft > Move tool.

DONE! And in one less step than your proposed workflow. :P
5. I cant import or export files!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then your simply not doing something correctly, or your trying to import / export a closed, proprietary format that FreeCAD does not support.
6. I want to do everything on the drawing screen. I dont want to have to enter in weird codes or macros(Whatever that is). Just too much computer geek stuff happening for everyone to keep up, including me.
99.9% of anything you might want to do in FreeCAD, you can do through the GUI once you understand it. the last 0.1% that might take a Python Macro to access, you can easily find help with that in the Python scripting and macros section of this forum. Mostly Macros are used to automate complex tasks. In no way is there a requirement that one need know how to write a Python Macro to use FreeCAD. Many very complex models have been made without the use of custom Macros. The use of Macros, (scripts), is an option that is available to users. It is an advanced tool that can be used in conjunction with the GUI, and that is all.

If your having trouble with a particular task, please ask about it in the Help forum AFTER you have read, understand, and can follow the instructions the very first post in that section - IMPORTANT: Please read first before asking for help. We will be more than happy to help you out. I think with just a little time and understanding, you'll find FreeCAD a very complete, refined, and capable program.

Mark

Included screenshot from -
OS: Ubuntu 14.04.1 LTS
Word size of OS: 64-bit
Word size of FreeCAD: 64-bit
Version: 0.15.3986 (Git)
Branch: master
Hash: 93e01c16b67e48c4954568033940a4b2732c99f0
Python version: 2.7.6
Qt version: 4.8.6
Coin version: 4.0.0a
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OCC version: 6.7.1
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quick61
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Re: Message to the Developers

Post by quick61 »

normandc wrote:danielfalck was much more lenient than me in approving your post. I wouldn't have as I found it obnoxious.
Hi Norm,

On first read, so did I. :evil: On second read, I thought I would try to use it a a "teachable moment", though it took a few more of those moments to make that post. If Blakeo44 sticks with it for just a bit, I think he might find FreeCAD to be a bit more polished than what he currently perceives. i am left with the impression that most of what he is expecting Draft to do, he should be using Part Design to accomplish, but I could be reading that wrong. :?

Though coming at this from a background in AlphaCAM and Metalix, there will need to be an adjustment in his currently applied workflow with those programs. I see that AlphaCAM Part Modeler has a kind of shiny feature - 2D to 3D with some automation tools. Maybe someday someone might want to take a stab at that with FreeCAD?

Mark
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NormandC
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Re: Message to the Developers

Post by NormandC »

There is no excuse for the tone he chose to use. It is clear his mind is already made up on how FreeCAD should be: it has to be tailored to his views. Trying to engage him is an exercise in futility.

I've been here a long time, and I can tell you this: of all the people who came in here with guns blazing like Blakeo44, none, NONE of them, to use his beloved all caps, have stuck around or listened to advice from experienced people here.

I'm sorry but in my opinion your posts are completely wasted.
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quick61
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Re: Message to the Developers

Post by quick61 »

You are probably right about that too Norm, my time could of very well of been wasted on the OP, but maybe it will be of some benefit to other new users that are currently surfing the forum. And hey, if it stops a noob from opening mouth - inserting foot, we're all the better for it. :P

Mark
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Re: Message to the Developers

Post by NormandC »

Just to smooth my position a little ;), I have no problem with newcomers talking about FreeCAD's "failings". We all know it's not perfect. We had a discussion in the past about FreeCAD's apparent lack of "cohesion" between workbenches (started by danielfalck I believe?), and Jriegel agreed that at some point, this would have to be addressed. I've even advised some people on alternatives.

But if you want to be the critic, you damn well better do your homework first.
Blakeo44
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Re: Message to the Developers

Post by Blakeo44 »

Quick 61,
Thank you for your response into the post I have created. I would like to address some things you brought up.
First: Thank you for such a detailed response.
Second: I will continue to try to use this software, as long as there are people who care enough to write a response like that on the behalf on FreeCAD.
Third: I am not as good as writing out my thoughts as you are. My hat is off to you. But Im still a pretty damn sharp guy. Having said that: I like numbers. I love math. Geometry. Real life objects, matter, whatever you may call them. Till now, I have learned a different way to "CAD" what I see. I would love the help in any way you guys can give I need alot of help making this curve happen- Will you help?

P.S. I'll stop writing in caps...
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quick61
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Re: Message to the Developers

Post by quick61 »

Blakeo44 wrote:Quick 61,
Thank you for your response into the post I have created. I would like to address some things you brought up.
First: Thank you for such a detailed response.
Second: I will continue to try to use this software, as long as there are people who care enough to write a response like that on the behalf on FreeCAD.
Third: I am not as good as writing out my thoughts as you are. My hat is off to you. But Im still a pretty damn sharp guy. Having said that: I like numbers. I love math. Geometry. Real life objects, matter, whatever you may call them. Till now, I have learned a different way to "CAD" what I see. I would love the help in any way you guys can give I need alot of help making this curve happen- Will you help?

P.S. I'll stop writing in caps...
Sure thing. Any problems you run into, just ask in the Help section of this forum. Just do yourself and us a favor and please incluse your Help > About FreeCAD info as explained in the very first thread in the Help section - IMPORTANT: Please read first before asking for help - which explains how to retrieve and post your FreeCAD info. It may seem like a useless task to some, but it can and does mean allot to us providing the help, if for no other reason to verify we're on the same page. ;) I kind of look at the inclusion of the "About FreeCAD" information the same way as I look at lawyers, guns and money, (great song BTW), it is far better to have and not need, than to need and not have. :shock:

Hope your experience with FreeCAD is a fun and productive one.

Mark
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