BIM Module addition ideas

[NormandC]

Hi,

The developers are planning to switch from svn to Git once v0.12 is released later this month (or maybe later). I understand they aim to foster contributions to the project as this will make it easier, because people won't need to get write access to trunk.

[hozhozen]

Have you seen Alberto Paoluzzi's work and his book, "Geometric Programming for Computer-Aided Design"? It's all about space, and defining it with any number of dimensions (when you have the concept but not all the data yet). But even he says it's for brainstorming and does not say if it's beneficial to the final modeling of a building (or whatever, his examples are architectural).

His methods are only programming based and if you do a search, even the visual is programming with symbols, because how do you represent a space with no dimensions that is related to another?

I don't thing Revit has anything like it. I just thought I would mention it A search will get you to his sites and papers.

(btw, I read the book sometimes, and pretend I could code 50% of the ideas, but denial is not just a river in E----!)

[hozhozen]

<embarrassed> Sorry, I did not know that what I thought was the last post was the first! I thought we would see the newest one first! </embarassed>, but still...

[yorik]

No problem! This served to reactivate a bit this topic
This book looks pretty interesting (it's on google books). Lots of concepts used in FreeCAD... I'll have a deeper look at it

[kemeniru]

This is an ongoing topic as Yorik has mentioned. So even though this is an old post, I figure the comments are directed at my post so I will provide a response regardless.

Have you seen Alberto Paoluzzi's work and his book, "Geometric Programming for Computer-Aided Design"?

No I have not read the book. I will put that down as my next book interest though.

It's all about space, and defining it with any number of dimensions (when you have the concept but not all the data yet). But even he says it's for brainstorming and does not say if it's beneficial to the final modeling of a building (or whatever, his examples are architectural).

It is understood that designers are designing spaces when they work with manual tools. When you interview them they express the need to be able to design spaces with any tool provided to support their process. Your comment on whether it is beneficial to the final modeling of a building is the reason why commerical systems have not bothered to research and support the building design process. There are many benefits for CAD tools to focus on spaces in the modeling of a building. One important reason is that it is necessary for the media (in this case the computer) to provide us with crucial (albeit more interesting) support and feedback during the process. Wouldn't you like to know how much daylighting is in a space, how far your main exit is from a particular space or in general how well you are abiding to the building code for specifc parts of the building, etc. (in realtime) while you are still desiging? To do most of these you need to use addon software that forces you to do additional processes (like designating spaces!!!) and makes educated guesses about your design in order to come up with this information. This is redundant and error prone because of the interpretation involved. Why not do it right the first time around and while designer needs the information for the design process?

The problem is how can we make it possible to do this using computers which may be what the book is alluding to (I do not know). So it (space) is necessary for the final modeling of the building. Available software may not allow you to design spaces directly but the designer works hard behind the scenes to do this while expressing the visual results (without appropriate support) using computers.

His methods are only programming based and if you do a search, even the visual is programming with symbols, because how do you represent a space with no dimensions that is related to another?

The design process is a complex one. Different people have different approaches. Note that this means that one designer will have different approaches to the same problem. This is because design is not only scientific it is also emotional, etc. In order to really provide significant support you need to study these different possible approaches so that you end up satisfying most of them. Using symbols don't work for me in most building design cases so I do not subscribe to that approach. Representing a space without dimensions does not make sense. A space is an object that makes it possible to support activities required in a building type. In order to have an activity you must have boundaries which depend on a lot of things. The best way to think of this is to think of a bathroom. if you are designing a bathroom space, think of the toilet, this must be a minimum size with certain distances to the toilet roll holder and should be accessible appropriately. Then think of the sink which has a minimum size, etc. once you have brought together all necessary and desired parts you have yourself a bathroom space. So you may start first by designating what you think is a size for your space but the actual activity taking place within that space determines the final spatial dimensions. I hope this makes sense to you.

It is important to relate spaces to another. That is what the computer can use to provide unbounded supported to the design process. Through studying manual design methods we know that relations are made with boundaries (invisible or visible) of spaces. Now implementing how this happens in the computer is an ongoing research effort. I have ideas which works well in a text based CAD system but I am new to implementing for a graphical CAD tool like FreeCAD so I have not fleshed this out yet. I am confident or should I say committed to solving this in my lifetime and I know a few others are doing the same too. Time will tell. Also, studying protocol analysis of designers at work using manual processes are invaluable.

I don't thing Revit has anything like it. I just thought I would mention it A search will get you to his sites and papers.

Can you give me a link to his site and papers? It may be worthwhile for me to see what he is doing. Thanks.