Tool Editor / Tool Table

Here's the place for discussion related to CAM/CNC and the development of the Path module.
dubstar-04
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Re: [DEV] Tool Editor GUI

Postby dubstar-04 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:19 am

mlampert wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:27 am
dubstar-04 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:08 pm
I would like to continue discussion with ideas for improving the tool table and any existing issues that might need fixing first.
Quite timely - I've been playing with a new operation that requires a tool that is not describable with the current parameters. I could misuse some that are not needed but that is not a good idea.
I have created a threadmill tool branch here: https://github.com/dubstar-04/FreeCAD/t ... l-Tool-def

I haven't had chance to have a look at the op yet I'm afraid, are there any tool properties / parameters the op needs?

Threadmill.png
Threadmill.png (39.47 KiB) Viewed 448 times
mlampert
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Re: Tool Editor / Tool Table

Postby mlampert » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:40 am

For thread milling alpha would always be 60 degree. However, most thread mills don't run to a sharp point, so there's a "crest".
But I'm starting to feel like this is becoming a fool's errand with forms and parameters with - to be honest - an endless variety. Even if we didn't consider turning tools the variations of shapes don't seem to be classify-able.

In other words, I don't think the current approach scales and we need to reconsider how to represent tools.
dubstar-04
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Re: Tool Editor / Tool Table

Postby dubstar-04 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:18 am

mlampert wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:40 am
In other words, I don't think the current approach scales and we need to reconsider how to represent tools.
I agree, that was the thinking when I started this thread and I would welcome ideas.

In the short term I would like to get what we already have working better, fix bugs, add needed tools, etc...

The first bigger change I would like to is work on handling multiple tool tables, mainly to allow seperate milling and turning tables.

With that done then I think we would be at the point where a rethink of how tools are managed would be required.

Thanks,

Dan
chrisb
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Re: Tool Editor / Tool Table

Postby chrisb » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:54 am

For Metal workers it seems to be not very common, but woodworkers often have lots of special mills and sometimes they even create a new one for a special shape. We cannot provide solutions for every single of a special tool, so we should think of what are the common parameters which have to be defined so that Path can generate the right G-code.

This thread tool is special, because it is needed for very special tool paths. Although there are several parameters for such a tool - e.g. an angle of 55° for whitworth, trapezoidal threads, ... - so here again the question is, what does FreeCAD need to generate the right helical path, it's probably nothing more than length, diameter, and some tip overshoot.
herbk
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Re: Tool Editor / Tool Table

Postby herbk » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:36 pm

Hi,
Atm, if i use a shaped endmill, i set the parameter for the tooldiameter a little bit smaller as the smallest part of the cutting area and add a "Lead in Lead out Dressup" to the path. Lead in/out size is to set bigger as the bigest part of the cutting area.

For me that works, because i use shaped endmills usualy for contourung only.
Gruß Herbert
dubstar-04
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Re: Tool Editor / Tool Table

Postby dubstar-04 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:54 pm

chrisb wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:54 am
For Metal workers it seems to be not very common, but woodworkers often have lots of special mills and sometimes they even create a new one for a special shape. We cannot provide solutions for every single of a special tool, so we should think of what are the common parameters which have to be defined so that Path can generate the right G-code.

This thread tool is special, because it is needed for very special tool paths. Although there are several parameters for such a tool - e.g. an angle of 55° for whitworth, trapezoidal threads, ... - so here again the question is, what does FreeCAD need to generate the right helical path, it's probably nothing more than length, diameter, and some tip overshoot.
You know what? I never even considered woodworking tools. :oops:

Following a discussion with mlampert I have a few ideas I need to test.

The tool geometry is also needed for 3D operations and simulation so while we only need the diameter for most ops we do need something more comprehensive in other areas.

Thanks,

Dan
dubstar-04
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Re: Tool Editor / Tool Table

Postby dubstar-04 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:19 am

mlampert wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:40 am
For thread milling alpha would always be 60 degree. However, most thread mills don't run to a sharp point, so there's a "crest".
But I'm starting to feel like this is becoming a fool's errand with forms and parameters with - to be honest - an endless variety. Even if we didn't consider turning tools the variations of shapes don't seem to be classify-able.

In other words, I don't think the current approach scales and we need to reconsider how to represent tools.
I have updated the image and the angle:

ThreadMIll2.png
ThreadMIll2.png (37.17 KiB) Viewed 358 times

PR: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/2437
dubstar-04
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Re: Tool Editor / Tool Table

Postby dubstar-04 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:10 pm

I've been working on the tool table to allow the use of multiple tables.

I haven't changed the tooling representation yet.

Demo Video:
ToolTableDemo.webm
(980.17 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
For discussion:

1. Multiple tools with the same number in 1 table. on my lathe I only have 8 tool slots, so I assign multiple tools to each slot, hence multiple tools with the same number.
2. Manually typing the tool number in the tool field and removing the move buttons.

Enhancements:
- Updated the move commands to track the selected tool position.

Thoughts?
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sliptonic
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Re: Tool Editor / Tool Table

Postby sliptonic » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:47 pm

IMHO, a tool number should be unique within a set but I like the idea of being able to set up multiple tool tables to represent groups of tools. Having multiple tools with the same number seems like a trouble.

I'm aware of at least one type of machine that uses tool numbers like T2-3 or T1-6. The first part of the tool number indicates the head and the second the tool from that head's set of tools.

I don't think we'll ever be able to make everyone happy.

I'm ok with removing the 'move' buttons. That was just a quick and dirty way to keep the tool numbers unique. Never meant to be a long term solution.
RatonLaveur
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Re: Tool Editor / Tool Table

Postby RatonLaveur » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:00 am

I'm aware of at least one type of machine that uses tool numbers like T2-3 or T1-6. The first part of the tool number indicates the head and the second the tool from that head's set of tools.
I know our machine can receive an "infinite" number of tool lists each containing 9 tools
Hence list 1 tool 4 is called T14 M6. List 14 tool 9 is T149 M6. Just to confirm. Agree not everyone can be made happy.