Artwork / Icons

Here's the place for discussion related to CAM/CNC and the development of the Path module.
flopsy
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:39 pm

Artwork / Icons

Postby flopsy » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:54 pm

Hi,
first a list of some links related to this topic:
Artwork Wiki page: https://freecadweb.org/wiki/Artwork
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 2&start=30
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... d2#p152903
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 4d#p207297

some Inspiations from other cams:
https://github.com/FernV/NativeCAM/tree/master/graphics
https://github.com/Heeks/heekscnc/tree/master/icons

-tool style
As mention before the main style of the tools looks a bit more like a drill. I like the style of this one https://freecadweb.org/wiki/File:Path-MachineMill.svg but i think it could have more contrast, because when its very small it becomes blur.

-array Icon
The array Icon looks a bit like a depth setting. Maybe its more clear, if it looks more like this just for example (its from "nativeCam")
I like the top view of this. It makes it intuitive. Of cause it should not be just a cycle, but a very simple contour line like:
I like the "create a non-parametric copy..." mostly. In my opinion the 3 icons for copy/array should more similar.
( I also notice the icon in the "operation" is not the array icon... -> screenshot )

-explaining pictures:
as sliptonic and i wrote in https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 4d#p207297
+some nice Pictures
In heekscad for example is is so great to have a little pics for explanations. It was mention before in some post. would it be possible?

Very possible. The infrastructure to display the pictures in the task panels has already been written. We need someone to do svg images and someone to put in the time to do it. This probably won't make it into the next release but should get some attention after that.
that would be very nice

what do you think? what is your opinion? I will try to play i bit with the design and post my results...
Chris
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Bildschirmfoto_2018-01-29_17-00-12-mod.png
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rect-array.png
rect-array.png (8.09 KiB) Viewed 1415 times
flopsy
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:39 pm

Re: Artwork / Icons

Postby flopsy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:30 pm

Ok, i did some research and thoughts:
First i did think it could be a a little color change ( for example make the blue more bright to have more contrast) , but its seems to be complete bullshit, cause of the match to all other wb.. They already look so professional !
Is seems to be nearly impossible to do it better in that limitation of that small size. Except maybe a very little changes on the:
1.tool shape (less drill-style)
2. "drill-object- icon"
3. the 3 "copy/array icons
I'm sorry for being so hypercritical with all this stuff. The reason for this is, i just want to focus the view from a beginner/first-time-user and try to help it make it intuitive to use. Please tell me, if you think my opinion is bullshit... :oops:

-the explaining pictures:
I find out that in the architect WB there are already this explaining pictures (for example in "make a window")
This is very cool! One Question is, it is the final design? If yes, than the path pictures should have the same design style with the red-dimension-lines!? Than who did it, and how? Is it possible to get the raw files for that?

What pictures do we need? should a similar tool-style like in the icons used for this?
1.Base geometries: No picture?!
1.Heights: a workpiece, a tool, one dimension for safe and clearance
2.deeps: a workpiece, a tool, one Dimension for start, final and steep down
3.Operation: This seems very difficult. I've no good idea to bring it in one picture.
besides: is there a good reason for do a extra checkbox for "use Compensation"? it feels for me a bit like this is for G43 usage. Would it not more clear to put it in "Cut Side" : Inside/On-line/Outside?

Dressups:
1.Dogbone: One picture with the different styles and so one.
2.Tag dressup: One picture with a tag, dimension for with and hight,

I notice there is no "popup-window" for this 3 dress-ups, is that intent?
3. Ramps entry
4. Drag knife
5. Lead in/lead out

by the way is there a possible error to do more than one dress-up in one operation? is the a preferend order for this? example Tag, ramps entry, start point. Should it have more explanation?


3.tool table:(is this doable?) same for "tool" in tool controller? a tool , Dimension for: diameter, Length-offset, and so one (by the way, i do not totally understand for what reason this parameters have to be set...what parameters inflict the g-code calculation? that's what i meant above...)
greetz
Chris
herbk
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Location: Windsbach, Bavarya (Germany)

Re: Artwork / Icons

Postby herbk » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:13 pm

Hi flpopsy,

some of this pics you are talking about i'm missing to, but for some (more) i don't think we realy need it and some could be better, - may be... and here the first question: Better? to whose taste? ;) ;) one like this icon style, others lile that... :D

Also i'm in mind, that not each thing needs to have a picture/icon near it. E.g. the base geometrie, a cube is a cube... a pic dosn't say more.
Heights and dephts... how you want to make more clear what "height" means with a little icon?
in my mind the whole thing about heigts, dephts, milling speeds, and so on, is to complex for trying a "semi explanation" with icons, - a little "i-icon" (I for information) wich is linked to the Wiki Page where is this things are explaned would do better work.
besides: is there a good reason for do a extra checkbox for "use Compensation"?
yes it is, - and it's allready explaned in the path forum...
If you want to use the tool compensation of the machine e.g you have to uncheck this button, or if you want to give the gcode to someone else and you don't know which tool he will use.
by the way is there a possible error to do more than one dress-up in one operation?
I used Tag and Rampentry dressup several times in combination.
I noticed, that you have to set the Tag-Dressup first, then selecht the Tag dressup and give it a the Ramp-Entry, -in reverse order the path is getting wrong.
But this is a few commits old...

To the tooltable, pics about tools etc, you will also find a discussion in the path forum... Sometimes reading helps more then a Icon.... :D :D ;) ;)
Gruß Herbert
flopsy
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Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:39 pm

Re: Artwork / Icons

Postby flopsy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:31 pm

herbk wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:13 pm
and here the first question: Better? to whose taste? ;) ;) one like this icon style, others lile that... :D
Yes, of course , everyone have a different taste, i primary aim on self-explanation, without losing a "fancy-style" and the "red-line" compare to other Wb's.
herbk wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:13 pm
E.g. the base geometrie, a cube is a cube... a pic dosn't say more.
Yes , total agree!
herbk wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:13 pm
Heights and dephts... how you want to make more clear what "height" means with a little icon?
half agree: for example "Safe Height" and "Clearance Height" tooks a few seconds for me to understand what is means, even i got about 10 years cnc-experience and tested really a lot CAM-software (Heekscad; inkskape-gcode-tool; cammill, F-engrave; g-code-ripper; dxf2g-code; BlenderCAM; pycam; estlecam; etc...) and not every cam has a extra " Height Clearance". For me by default (or maybe it's my fault?!) "clearance Height" is set to 6mm and "Safe Height" to 4mm, that a bit confusing for me
herbk wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:13 pm
in my mind the whole thing about heigts, dephts, milling speeds, and so on, is to complex for trying a "semi explanation" with icons, - a little "i-icon" (I for information) wich is linked to the Wiki Page where is this things are explaned would do better work.
not agree: in the one hand you say sth. like: "Heights, deeps what is the need for a picture and now sth. like :" heigts, dephts, milling speeds is to complex"
i think: yes, cnc-milling is complex and need a lot of experience, but why not to try it to make it as easy a possible? Look at the the "make a window" in "Arch-WB" for example.. the window height/width: there is no need for explanation, right? but with this fancy picture it just make a "boom" in your face, without no need a sec. to think about it.
herbk wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:13 pm
yes it is, - and it's allready explaned in the path forum...
Ok, than nevermind, sorry for my question... !
herbk wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:13 pm
I used Tag and Rampentry dressup several times in combination.
I noticed, that you have to set the Tag-Dressup first, then selecht the Tag dressup and give it a the Ramp-Entry, -in reverse order the path is getting wrong.
I'm not totally sure... I play a bit with it and i think this order of the menu makes now logical sense: "Dogbone, (dragknife), leadInout, ramps entry, tags" this is the order it should be used... ?!? ( i'm sure there is already a lot discussion about this :) i'm still on it to follow! )
herbk wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:13 pm
To the tooltable, pics about tools etc, you will also find a discussion in the path forum... Sometimes reading helps more then a Icon.... :D :D ;) ;)
Yes, of curse. :oops: :D (i did find it now : https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 9&start=10
and https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 3&start=40)
please try to understand that you and other here are years ahead in this forum. I try always my best to do some research before i post something, but there thousands and thousands entry's and discussion to read and to find, it's really not easy :( :o :shock:
I do some work for it. (just silly, chaotic and sketch) Maybe you think its bullshit, but for me its fun to play with it.
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sliptonic
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Re: Artwork / Icons

Postby sliptonic » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:05 am

Before spending any effort on icons, make sure you are familiar with the guidelines and get plugged in to the UI/UX subforum.

The guidelines exist to make sure the UI looks good in both light and dark themes and with the icons at extremely low resolution.

Multiple dressups are allowed but not necessarily all combinations. For example, you shouldn't have multiple dressups that modify the entry ( lead-in and a ramp entry)
flopsy
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Re: Artwork / Icons

Postby flopsy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:38 pm

sliptonic wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:05 am
Before spending any effort on icons, make sure you are familiar with the guidelines and get plugged in to the UI/UX subforum.

The guidelines exist to make sure the UI looks good in both light and dark themes and with the icons at extremely low resolution.
Thanks a lot! I do not really expect that me as a non professional can do this till the end. The professional did it thousand times better than me!
Maybe for me it's more about the learning process.
One little thing i notice, is about the colors: I know there is already a lot discussion about it. here for ex: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 8&start=50 I'm still on it to read it all through...
At the moment i can say, it feels a bit for me, that the logical "red-line" of the icons could be a bit clearer: I very like the "profile based on face" and profile based on edges" Icons because of the yellow makes it so clear what type it based on. (That was my intension for my re-design of "drill holes" Icon)
Another thought was to make the tools in Icons a little bit smaller to have more space for the rest of the icons.
sliptonic wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:05 am
Multiple dressups are allowed but not necessarily all combinations. For example, you shouldn't have multiple dressups that modify the entry ( lead-in and a ramp entry)
Thanks! I tested a bit with different combinations, with interesting results...
greetz
Chris
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sliptonic
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Re: Artwork / Icons

Postby sliptonic » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:01 pm

flopsy wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:38 pm
One little thing i notice, is about the colors: I know there is already a lot discussion about it. here for ex: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 8&start=50 I'm still on it to read it all through...
At the moment i can say, it feels a bit for me, that the logical "red-line" of the icons could be a bit clearer: I very like the "profile based on face" and profile based on edges" Icons because of the yellow makes it so clear what type it based on. (That was my intension for my re-design of "drill holes" Icon)
Another thought was to make the tools in Icons a little bit smaller to have more space for the rest of the icons.
I'm not artistically inclined at all but that doesn't stop me from having opinions. :lol: I think it's important for the tool to look the same whenever used so the user can derive something about it compared to the other icons.

That said, making an icon 'communicate information' is a good goal but not always possible, especially with actions as complex as ours. It's o.k. to strive only for the icon to 'stand for' something. The user will quickly learn what it means.

For example, my kids have never actually seen a floppy disk in use but totally understand what the save icon means. It has come to represent saving even though the shape metaphor doesn't mean much anymore. Our goal should be for the icons to be easily distinguishable at any resolution, to look good in any theme, and to look like they're part of a unified set. If they look 'like' something, that's just gravy.
flopsy
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Re: Artwork / Icons

Postby flopsy » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:56 am

flopsy wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:38 pm
I think it's important for the tool to look the same whenever used so the user can derive something about it compared to the other icons.

That said, making an icon 'communicate information' is a good goal but not always possible, especially with actions as complex as ours. It's o.k. to strive only for the icon to 'stand for' something. The user will quickly learn what it means.

For example, my kids have never actually seen a floppy disk in use but totally understand what the save icon means. It has come to represent saving even though the shape metaphor doesn't mean much anymore. Our goal should be for the icons to be easily distinguishable at any resolution, to look good in any theme, and to look like they're part of a unified set. If they look 'like' something, that's just gravy.
Yes, total agree!
please don't take my ugly sceenshots serious! I did just left everything in, and give everything a nummer for no good reason. I should have deleted mostly of it before.
Edit: This one is a bit more serious, but i DON'T know if it is usable at at...
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chrisb
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Re: Artwork / Icons

Postby chrisb » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:04 pm

The tool doesn't give much information in the icons. In the small icons it rather obscures than clarifies. It boils down to three colors:
- blue is the object
- yellow is what you have to select to invoke the operation
- green is the path

For small icons a new design might be helpful.
You need at least FreeCAD 0.19.23300 to edit my current sketches.
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flopsy
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:39 pm

Re: Artwork / Icons

Postby flopsy » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:59 pm

chrisb wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:04 pm
The tool doesn't give much information in the icons. In the small icons it rather obscures than clarifies. It boils down to three colors:
- blue is the object
- yellow is what you have to select to invoke the operation
- green is the path
Yes, total agree!
I do not know, if i'm understand you right, because of the double meaning of the word "tool" in English. I did think a little about the words endmill, cutter and tool (The word "tool" makes it difficult to search for me in forum sometimes... )
If i understand you right, i think about "to use no tool at all in the icons, because its clear in path-wb everything is about tool/endmill ", too. But i think its a good look style to use it.