Concerns From a User's Perspective [Resolved & "In-Progrss]

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FBXL5
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Re: Concerns From a User's Perspective

Post by FBXL5 »

Roy_043 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:46 am The previous versions of these index-type pages contain lists (words and images) that actually match what the user sees in the GUI. IOW there is no disparity between the GUI and the Wiki.
Sorry to warm up this old stuff...

Is there a reason why the https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Std_Base#Additional_tools section does not match with the quoted description?

I was just about to change it, but thought to consult the forum first and stumbled about this (again...). And so I'm asking to avoid unnecessary tension 8-)
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Roy_043
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Re: Concerns From a User's Perspective

Post by Roy_043 »

The Std_Base 'workbench' is a special case as it has many menus. They are not presented on a single page for practical reasons. On the page this is in fact explained:
https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Std_Base wrote:Most Std Base tools can be accessed from the standard menu. Those that are only available via a toolbar or a context menu are listed under Additional tools. ... The standard menu is composed of 7 sub-menus. Each sub-menu has a dedicated page. Just click on any of the names below.
So the "Additional tools" paragraph is in effect a rest category with tools that do not all occur in the same toolbar/context menu.
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FBXL5
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Re: Concerns From a User's Perspective

Post by FBXL5 »

Roy_043 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:31 pm So the "Additional tools" paragraph is in effect a rest category with tools that do not all occur in the same toolbar/context menu.
I'm ok with how it's arranged.
I just think that the naming doesn't match all those on the other sub-pages. As you explained farther above.:
Std Part should be Create part,
Std Group should be Create group,
Std LinkMake should be Make link, and so on.
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Roy_043
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Re: Concerns From a User's Perspective

Post by Roy_043 »

Before the V0.20 tooltips the menu texts of these tools were not available in the GUI. That is the reason for this difference.
It would make sense to change this now, so please go ahead! Thanks.
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MSOlsen65
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Re: Concerns From a User's Perspective

Post by MSOlsen65 »

Roy_043 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:56 pm Before the V0.20 tooltips the menu texts of these tools were not available in the GUI. That is the reason for this difference.
It would make sense to change this now, so please go ahead! Thanks.
I have been making the same argument as FBXLL5 since before v0.17. For myself at least the tooltips have always been available since these options were introduced (different ones came in over a series of years). So this is not new with v0.20. This is just the first time someone with 'authority' has supported the recommendation, and for that I most sincerely thank you.

It is nice to have someone acknowledge what users have bee saying for so many years and for them to be willing to make changes. It gives me hope that the project, at least the documentation team, is moving forward in recognizing and supporting the various levels of need (User, Developer, Translator, Add-on/Macro coder, etc.)
Sincerely,


Michael S. Olsen
Electrical Engineer & Joiner
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onekk
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Re: Concerns From a User's Perspective

Post by onekk »

MSOlsen65 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:50 pm It is nice to have someone acknowledge what users have bee saying for so many years and for them to be willing to make changes. It gives me hope that the project, at least the documentation team, is moving forward in recognizing and supporting the various levels of need (User, Developer, Translator, Add-on/Macro coder, etc.)

I think that this type of support has been present, probably, not in the most "kind" form.

Users have been ever encouraged to participate on FC development, what has been lacking was a "better supervision" and a "clear policy".

As example Wiki pages has been a nightmare, to modify because it is not infrequent that many users are modifying same page, and each of them has little knowledge of what has been done by others.

So it was not infrequent that you maybe have worked on a wiki page or translation, and someone else will vanish all your work modifying same page.

So I've stopped to help in translating wiki pages in my language.

Recently it seems that there is more control on modifications, and there is a sort of "moderation" (or at least modifications seems more "guided" and "supervised").

From my limited experience however developers have been ever open to discuss thing and accept ideas if they are good and could lead to a better FC experience.

But it is not ever so simple to talk among people, so mileage may vary also depending on each person reaction to some "misunderstandings" that could happen as example if there are some "language gaps" between "native english (american) speaker" and a person that has a "basic knowledge" of English (or American English).

Many times I have to analyse very careful some phrases and "think for better" or simply use the most direct way, asking for an explanation, using all the care needed to avoid misunderstandings.

As usual, sorry for my bad English and for the long post.

Regards

Carlo D.
GitHub page: https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc.
- In deep articles on FreeCAD.
- Learning how to model with scripting.
- Various other stuffs.

Blog: https://okkmkblog.wordpress.com/
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FBXL5
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Re: Concerns From a User's Perspective

Post by FBXL5 »

MSOlsen65 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:50 pm
Roy_043 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:56 pm Before the V0.20 tooltips the menu texts of these tools were not available in the GUI. That is the reason for this difference.
It would make sense to change this now, so please go ahead! Thanks.
I have been making the same argument as FBXLL5 since before v0.17. For myself at least the tooltips have always been available since these options were introduced (different ones came in over a series of years). So this is not new with v0.20. This is just the first time someone with 'authority' has supported the recommendation, and for that I most sincerely thank you.

It is nice to have someone acknowledge what users have bee saying for so many years and for them to be willing to make changes. It gives me hope that the project, at least the documentation team, is moving forward in recognizing and supporting the various levels of need (User, Developer, Translator, Add-on/Macro coder, etc.)
Your changes went in the right direction, but your suggestions didn't match with all the other entries in the other menus; that was the point, I think. Roy43 explained why links should have this certain structure.

As you can see it took 2 reqests to get a go and I think it was partly due to my germanish blend of British English.
I wanted to update the translation, but this section seemed to be unfinished and I just wanted to update it only once.

I usually leave english pages (which seem to be well maintained) alone as long as I don't find typos or obvious mistakes in descriptions.
To avoid tensions, it is quite safe to add content to help the original authors. If it doesn't fit properly a native speaker or someone with expert knowledge needs to edit just a bit (hopefully).
Since I tend to over-complicate some expressions, I try to not take it personal when I get told off and my entries are edited or removed.
I'm trying to learn from the edits of my former submissions why some stuff seems odd to me but is important, agreed on, loved... by others.
Some guidelines are helpful as well, but I think I'm not familiar with all of them yet and so need a hint from time to time.
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MSOlsen65
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Re: Concerns From a User's Perspective

Post by MSOlsen65 »

onekk wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:27 am ... it is not ever so simple to talk among people, so mileage may vary also depending on each person reaction to some "misunderstandings" that could happen as example if there are some "language gaps" between "native english (american) speaker" and a person that has a "basic knowledge" of English (or American English).

Many times I have to analyse very careful some phrases and "think for better" or simply use the most direct way, asking for an explanation, using all the care needed to avoid misunderstandings.

As usual, sorry for my bad English and for the long post.

Regards

Carlo D.
FBXL5 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:20 am Your changes went in the right direction, but your suggestions didn't match with all the other entries in the other menus; that was the point, I think. Roy43 explained why links should have this certain structure.

As you can see it took 2 reqests to get a go and I think it was partly due to my germanish blend of British English.
I wanted to update the translation, but this section seemed to be unfinished and I just wanted to update it only once.

...

Since I tend to over-complicate some expressions, I try to not take it personal when I get told off and my entries are edited or removed.
I'm trying to learn from the edits of my former submissions why some stuff seems odd to me but is important, agreed on, loved... by others.
Some guidelines are helpful as well, but I think I'm not familiar with all of them yet and so need a hint from time to time.


My apologies for being gone from this discussion for so long. Your word deserved a far more timely response, and I have no valid excuse for failing to do so.

Your posts are not that long, and your English (any version) is far better than my Italian or German. Both of which are non-existent. :oops: That said, thank you for your ever so kind assurances. They are far more gentlemanly than my coarse tone deserved. Thank you. I shall endeavor to learn from your examples and work to be more patient and gracious to my fellow forum members.
Sincerely,


Michael S. Olsen
Electrical Engineer & Joiner
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