0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Discussions about the wiki documentation of FreeCAD and its translation.
qurn
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby qurn » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:57 pm

yeah could have posted it here.. i just did on the first page. Sketcher_CompConstrainRadDia
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Kunda1
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby Kunda1 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:18 pm

Thanks @qurn
So, Sketcher_CompConstrainRadDia, yea?
This is not an intuitive name. IMHO this page should redirect to an intuitive name. Anybody else agree?
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HarryGeier
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby HarryGeier » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:11 am

Kunda1 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:18 pm
This is not an intuitive name. IMHO this page should redirect to an intuitive name. Anybody else agree?
currently:
Sketcher_ConstrainRadius

proposals
Sketcher_ConstrainCircularSize
Sketcher_ConstrainDiameter
Sketcher_ConstrainDiameterOrRadius

not sure if it should cover one or both ways of doing it....
I peronally would have mad ONE page..for both...
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NormandC
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby NormandC » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:36 am

Kunda1 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:18 pm
This is not an intuitive name. IMHO this page should redirect to an intuitive name. Anybody else agree?
No. This would break translations.

In any case, these pages are created only because currently, icons below an icon menu cannot be accessed directly with the Std WhatsThis tool. If this could get fixed, then these Comp pages would no longer be required.
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Kunda1
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby Kunda1 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:04 am

NormandC wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:36 am
In any case, these pages are created only because currently, icons below an icon menu cannot be accessed directly with the Std WhatsThis tool. If this could get fixed, then these Comp pages would no longer be required.
Shall I open a ticket?

Edit: I just read Normand's response in another thread that redirects break translation pages. How does mediawiki then do it? I'm sure the need to shuffle things around comes up for them...
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NormandC
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby NormandC » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:04 am

Yes, a ticket would be useful, thanks.

Maybe "break" is a strong word, but it complicates things a lot. I'm sorry, it's no fault of you guys, but I am just so thoroughly fed up of talking about this (meanwhile I am not contributing to the wiki).

Maybe you should try it by yourself with a few pages, but please, do experiment the translation system on your own even if you have to pick some obscure language and paste lorem ipsum filler to do it. And also please, test the What's This? functionality.

Kunda1 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:04 am
How does mediawiki then do it?
Do you mean Wikipedia? AFAIK they don't even use the translation plugin. They must be doing their translations manually (ugh). Which means that there is absolutely no way to make sure that the content is the same between languages. In fact, languages have completely separate and different content, most of the time. We decided long ago that we did not want an asymmetric wiki for FreeCAD. We cannot have somebody create a page with original content in a language (say Chinese) that nobody else understands. Original content absolutely needs to be written in English first because that's the common language. Then we need to make it easy for people to translate the content into their own language; and preferably we prevent them from straying from the original. The translation plugin helps in that regard because it breaks down a page into small translation units (basically paragraphs become translation units). But, it is not foolproof: there is an issue with many German pages where a contributor decided last Spring to write completely different content from English. And there seem to be nobody willing or available to fix the issue.

And here I didn't want to spend any more time writing about this yet again, yet I did.
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Kunda1
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby Kunda1 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:22 am

Mediawiki, not as in Wikipedia, but as the wiki engine that runs many wikis.
Normand, thanks for your response. This is a tedious topic. It's hard to work with this wiki 'inertia'. I feel like we're compromising left and right and doing double work where we shouldn't really need to. I don't think it's laziness that doesn't get the docs and translations where they need to be... it's the software that we're using, IMHO. I also don't want to diminish the work anyone has done or waste your time on this topic.
It's a motivation killer wading through this inertia.
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NormandC
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby NormandC » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:26 am

Kunda1 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:22 am
It's a motivation killer wading through this inertia.
That's certainly right. What I feel most is weariness. I'm tired of seeing people come and go and not stick around, where the wiki is concerned.
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fosselius
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby fosselius » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:22 am

How about using animated GIF instead of static pictures for the different tool pages, its very helpful for new users.
here is two examples:
centerCircle2.gif
centerCircle2.gif (329.93 KiB) Viewed 145 times
3pointRim2.gif
3pointRim2.gif (597.76 KiB) Viewed 145 times
I do not know how much/little to show of the GUI, but it should be clear that you have the sketcher activated and where to find the button.
It might also be good to always start from origo to give a clear frame of reference for all actions.

I know from experience that the most "simple" and "obvious" things can cause hours of frustration for the end user.
When i begun using Blender and then later FreeCAD i spent most of my time trying to figure out how move/zoom/rotation/selection etc worked because the instructors/videos never mentioned it because it was "obvious". We all do a lot of magic keystrokes/clicks without noting it, because it have become a habit to us.

created with peek and key-mon in ubuntu
chrisb
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Re: 0003054: Sketcher - List of important but empty wiki pages that need contents

Postby chrisb » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:28 am

We have discussed that before and voted against it.