Re: pot purri of path issues

Discussions about the wiki documentation of FreeCAD and its translation.
mlampert
Posts: 1279
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:28 pm

Re: pot purri of path issues

Postby mlampert » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:32 am

Edit by moderator: This topic was started in the Path forum, which may put some comments slightly out of context.
Chris
--------------------------------------------------
Erich Schulz wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:34 am
Firstly when I a make the job the model clone fails to fully represent the multi-select (so rather than having a grid of holes, the path model onlyl has the first column)
The problem is that what you see is not what you modeled. The tip of Body is not MultiTransform but LinearPattern - which is exactly what the clone represents Once you make MultiTransform the tip of Body the clone (and Path) do the right thing.
Secondly at one point I had a very hard time getting one of my paths to dissapear - setting the operation to invisible or even the job to invisible failed to hide it. Eventually I saved and reopened the file a few times and the paths dissapeared.
You have to hide both, the Job and the operation for it to disappear - assuming hiding is all you wanted. If you want to disable it change the value of Active to False and it also disappears.
Erich Schulz
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Multitransform documentation

Postby Erich Schulz » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:01 am

mmm ok - thanks all

:-)

so for turning the path visibility off requires having all 3 (job, operations, and individual operation) set to off.

does this seem counter intuitive to anyone else? I would have thought it would make more sense that if any of job/operations/operation were invisible then they would be hidden? (ie the three layser visible properties should be ANDed, rather than ORed)?? if current behaviour is intuitive to others, well at least I know what the rule is :-)

re the "The problem is that what you see is not what you modeled." - that seems like the root of the problem? surely that is a bug? when you do an operation and you are left with an object on screen that looks like what you hoped for then that should be the tip of the model? It is possible that the way I mad this multi transform is not the "usual" way in that I made to seperate transforms (an X and a Y) then managed to get them both under the multi.

My fun has so far been on the June 27 daily build but I'm about to update.

thanks again!
Erich Schulz
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: pot purri of path issues

Postby Erich Schulz » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:38 am

So I have just reproduced this "what you see is not what you modeled" bug....

arguably this might be a bug in the multi transform rather than the path WB, as the bug only appears when you create the multiransform in a specific way.

(on the latest daily: July 3, 2019)

make an x & y transform, make a multi transform based on the one of the linear tranforms,
Screenshot from 2019-07-04 21-27-11.png
Screenshot from 2019-07-04 21-27-11.png (44.41 KiB) Viewed 314 times
then using the transformations field in data to add the second transform

then create a path job object


and, voila, what you modeled is not what you thought you had

:-)

hope this helps

if I make a single hole, then make the multitransform and construct the transformation sequentially within the multitransform by using the right mouse menu in the lower "tranformations" text area, then when I create my path job object it has by grid faithfully ready to mill...
Attachments
Screenshot from 2019-07-04 21-29-25.png
Screenshot from 2019-07-04 21-29-25.png (75.57 KiB) Viewed 314 times
pintable5.FCStd
(21.44 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
User avatar
Russ4262
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: pot purri of path issues

Postby Russ4262 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:11 pm

mlampert wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:32 am
The problem is that what you see is not what you modeled. The tip of Body is not MultiTransform but LinearPattern - which is exactly what the clone represents Once you make MultiTransform the tip of Body the clone (and Path) do the right thing. ...
I think a bug might be in MultiTransform. In some specific creation(initiation) cases, it doesn't seem to acquire/assume/become the "Tip" of the Body object when it is the last operation added to the Body object. This behavior is reproduceable.

That said, I took a look at the wiki page, PartDesign_MultiTransform. Complete instructions for correct initiation and usage is not provided. What is there is vague in regard to correct, step-by-step procedure for usage. Due to these deficiencies, I can see how we are running into problems with usage. I'll see about updating it to provide better support for usage and awareness of quirks. Until then here is, (having now read the wiki), the correct usage and initiation for the `MultiTransform Feature`:

Pre-usage Notes:
  • The `MulitTransform Feature` is used to combine the effects of multiple feature transformations: Mirrored Transformation, Linear Pattern, Polar Pattern, and Scaled Transformation. For example, you wish to combine two Linear Patterns - each in a different direction.
  • It is suggested that you not create the individual feature transformations independently prior to initiating a `MultiTransform Feature`, unless you are fairly comfortable with the overall FreeCAD environment and know how to locate and change properties of existing objects.
  • It is possible to successfully initiate a `MultiTransform Feature` starting with a single existing feature transformation in the Body object. This will be imported into the `MulitTransform Feature` as the first transformation.

Usage:
Starting with no existing feature transformations, do the following.
  1. Select the feature(s) you wish to use as the base feature(s) for your `MulitTransformation Feature`. Example: this might be a padded sketch, or a pocketed sketch.
  2. Click on the `MultiTransform Feature` icon to initiate the tool.
  3. If no feature was selected in the object tree in Step 1, you will be prompted to `Select feature`. Do so (multiple are permitted) and click OK to proceed.
  4. You will see the label(s) of the feature(s) you selected in Step 1 or 3 listed in the feature list area.
  5. Below the feature list area is the `Transformations` list area. Within you should see the text, "Right-click to add".
  6. Right click in the `Transformations` list area and a pop-up menu of transformations options will appear.
  7. [In Mr. Schulz's case] Select `add linear pattern`
  8. A new `Linear Pattern` transformation will appear in the `Transformations` list with corresponding settings appearing below.
  9. Change the settings for this `Linear Pattern` and click OK button underneath settings. (You will see the preview in the viewport.)
  10. Right click in the `Transformations` list area and select `add linear pattern` again.
  11. Adjust the settings for this `Linear Pattern` as needed, and click OK button underneath settings. (You will see the preview in the viewport.)
  12. If content with the `MultiTransform Feature` settings, click the OK button at the very top to save and exit, officially create the `MultiTransform Feature`.
  13. (When initiated and completed in this way, the `MultiTransform Feature` correctly acquires/assumes/becomes the "Tip" of the Body object.)

Starting with ONE existing feature transformation, do the following.
  1. Select the existing feature transformation to be imported into the `MultiTransform Feature`.
  2. Click on the `MultiTransform Feature` icon to initiate the tool.
  3. You will see the label of the base feature (used for the existing feature transformation you selected in Step 1) listed in the feature list area.
  4. Below the features list area is the `Transformations` list area. Within you should see the label of the existing feature transformation you imported as the first transformation.
  5. Right click in the `Transformations` list area and a pop-up menu of transformations options will appear.
  6. [In Mr. Schulz's case] Select `add linear pattern`
  7. A new `Linear Pattern` transformation will appear in the `Transformations` list with corresponding settings appearing below.
  8. Change the settings for this `Linear Pattern` and click OK button underneath settings. (You will see the preview in the viewport.)
  9. If content with the `MultiTransform Feature` settings, click the OK button at the very top to save and exit, officially create the `MultiTransform Feature`.
  10. (When initiated and completed in this way, the `MultiTransform Feature` fails to acquire/assume/become the "Tip" of the Body object.)
  11. Right click on the newly created `MultiTransform Feature`.
  12. Choose "Set tip". The "Tip" of the Body object will now be correct.

Starting with MULTIPLE existing feature transformations, OR to add/remove additional, do the following.
  1. Select the one feature transformation you wish to include in the `MultiTransform Feature`.
  2. Click on the `MultiTransform Feature` icon to initiate the tool.
  3. Click the OK button at top to save and exit the `MultiTransform Feature`.
  4. In the object tree, select the newly created `MultiTransform Feature`
  5. In the Property View window, locate the `Transformations` property in the Data tab.
  6. Edit the `Transformations` property by clicking on its value, then click on the ellipse box that appeared to open the `Links` window for this property.
  7. Select all feature transformations that should be included in the `MulitTransform Feature`. Multiple selections are permitted using CTRL-click.
  8. Click OK to save and close the `Links` window.
  9. Click the `Recompute` button if activated.
  10. (When initiated and completed in this way, the `MultiTransform Feature` might fail to acquire/assume/become the "Tip" of the Body object.)
  11. Right click on the newly created `MultiTransform Feature`.
  12. If available,choose "Set tip". The "Tip" of the Body object will now be correct.
UPDATE 2019-07-04 1715 CST: I shortened and added the above information to the PartDesign_MultiTransform wiki with a few GUI images.

Thanks,
Russ
Last edited by Russ4262 on Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chrisb
Posts: 17593
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: pot purri of path issues

Postby chrisb » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:27 pm

Russ4262 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:11 pm
Usage:
Starting with no existing feature transformations, do the following.
  1. Select the feature(s) you wish to use as the base feature(s) for your `MulitTransformation Feature`. Example: this might be a padded sketch, or a pocketed sketch.
It is not yet quite correct: You cannot start with more than one feature selected, and selecting more than one is a mess:
To add another feature you have to
- click the "Add feature" button in the transform tool
- switch to the tree view
- make the feature you want to add visible. Note: this will hide the previously visible feature
- Click on anything in 3D view.
chrisb
Posts: 17593
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: pot purri of path issues

Postby chrisb » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:28 pm

Should I split the multitransform discussion to its own topic in Help forum?
User avatar
Russ4262
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: pot purri of path issues

Postby Russ4262 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:13 pm

chrisb wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:27 pm
Russ4262 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:11 pm
Usage:
Starting with no existing feature transformations, do the following.
  1. Select the feature(s) you wish to use as the base feature(s) for your `MulitTransformation Feature`. Example: this might be a padded sketch, or a pocketed sketch.
It is not yet quite correct: You cannot start with more than one feature selected, and selecting more than one is a mess:
To add another feature you have to
- click the "Add feature" button in the transform tool
- switch to the tree view
- make the feature you want to add visible. Note: this will hide the previously visible feature
- Click on anything in 3D view.
... Just when I finished editing the PartDesign_MultiTransform wiki for the day... LOL

Do you want the honor, or shall I?

Thanks,
Russ
Last edited by Russ4262 on Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Erich Schulz
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: pot purri of path issues

Postby Erich Schulz » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:46 am

hey thanks all (again)

glad to see I've stimulated some useful discussion.

Russ I agree the wiki needed work (I'd planned on coming back to that but you've beaten me to it) but I'm thinking it would be good resolve the bug where the alternative pathway to adding transforms breaks the connection between the tip of the model is ways I dont understand

Chris I agree that splitting the multitransform part of this thread out could be useful.
chrisb
Posts: 17593
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: Multitransform documentation

Postby chrisb » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:18 am

A discussion about MultiTransform was moved to the wiki forum: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37435.
Erich Schulz
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: pot purri of path issues

Postby Erich Schulz » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:39 pm

Thanks Chris.