BIM Workbench

A forum dedicated to the Draft, Arch and BIM workbenches development.
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yorik
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby yorik » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:48 pm

Let me give you an example: If you select all the walls of your model, you can quickly change one or another of their properties simply by editing its value in the properties view. All the selected objects will get the new value.

A quick way to select all the walls of the project is still missing of course, but I'll add that as soon as release 017 is out.

Such operation is already easy and straightforward to do with the current properties editor. No need for an extra dialog.

Where I'd like to introduce these panels, is for operations that either are complicated with current tools, or where it would be interesting to have a broad, model-wide view. For example, managing all the levels/floors of your project in one place is handy. In the tree view, it's difficult to see all the level at once and make sure each one has correct values. And it is handy to add/remove levels from there too.

Same with windows, I think it is very handy to see all the windows of your project grouped by type, size, or whatever. Windows are often buried deep into your model tree.

In your list, indeed spaces would also be a good candidate. It would be interesting to have a clear view of all the space objects in your model, each with area, in which level they are, their main use, how many people in it, total areas, etc... Both this and the windows could also be exportable directly to a spreadsheet...

But for other types, it seems to me they need less of such a "management" interface... The main (only?) advantage of such a tool would be to change some of their properties all at once, and this is (will be) easily done from the property editor. So we would only be adding unnecessary complexity here.

Basically what I'm trying to explore with the BIM WB is to add interface elements that streamline the workflow, and make it easier to learn by new users. So it's more a matter of identifying specific points that need a certain interface change, rather than populating the WB with yet another series of tools...

Don't know if all this makes sense...
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bitacovir
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby bitacovir » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:13 am

yorik wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:48 pm

Don't know if all this makes sense...
It is more clear now. I think that your dialogs can have the following purposes:

1) To provide information and options about the potential of the workbench (like your welcome dialog)
2) General parameters setup (like your setup dialog). This is very useful for beginners to setup the BIM environment parameters at once.
3) To manage some complex items (like your dialogs for levels, windows, doors, etc)
Here I would suggest:
4) A Project parameters setup dialog. This could be a dialog that can help users and especially beginners to work with a well organised and structured group of the items. A dialog to gather several actions of good practices for each project. This dialog could help to create the organization of a project

Building parameters setup dialog:
Screenshot from 2000-01-04 12_29_05.png
Screenshot from 2000-01-04 12_29_05.png (47.63 KiB) Viewed 2221 times
So you help to generate something like this:
FreeCAD_2018-03-07_22-12-55.png
FreeCAD_2018-03-07_22-12-55.png (19.77 KiB) Viewed 2221 times
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yorik
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby yorik » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:39 pm

Excellent! This is exactly the kind of things I had in mind: How to "smooth out" the experience. Very good idea!

This could even become a "project setup", and it could define both a site and the building, allow to set address, main use, coordinates, etc...

We could also extend this into vertical axes and horizontal axes (common in buildings), and also allow to import a groups structure from a file. This would allow a company, for example, to always use the same layout.
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby paullee » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:03 am

Hi! This sound exciting! :) Haven't learned *.ui yet, so only some more thoughts.
  1. Site / Bldg / Level Manager
    When I had project with have a few blocks on one site, I make a spreadsheet laying out something like below - this maybe an advanced Site / Bldg / Level Manager format? It deliver message FC can and provide the tool to manage more complicated building project. (Danger to become a large spreadsheet rather than a dialog!)

    (Draw outline in the cells, and it works like a diagrammatic elevation / section :lol: )

    Site X < ------------------------------------------------ maybe a link to an 'external model file' if possible in future (like acad xref / block etc.)
    Bldg A . . . . . Bldg B . . . . . Bldg C <---------- see above
    Level 42
    Level 41
    Level 40. . . . .Level 30
    ...
    Level 2 . . . . . Level 2
    Level 2 . . . . . Level 2 . . . . . Level 2
    Level 1 . . . . . Level 1 . . . . . Level 1
    Level 0 . . . . . Level 0 . . . . . Level 0
    Office . . . . . . Hotel . . . . . . Serviced Apartment e.g.
    (sorry no tab in forum...)

    Maybe a 'main' axis system for each building - could probably for a single building develop a few axis systems so it may be confusing to have only 1 in fact.
    .
  2. Still Level vs Axis System ?
    Still I am trying to use Axes (in a vertical layout) to define the floor level - which seem could be useful as expression could be used.
    Not sure how the Floor Object is working together / separately with the Axis (system).
    This needs to be clarified for consistency and avoidance of doubt.
    .
  3. Window / Door / Room Manager ?
    For objects like Window, Door, Room ... I had attempt to do something in a spreadsheet https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 19#p199555
    These objects seem works better and probably run into a large and long schedule rather than in a dialog - architect worldwide do Window Schedule, Door Schdule... etc. ?
Screenshot from 2017-11-15 20-46-00.png
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby bitacovir » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:42 pm

yorik wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:42 pm
(...)
The main focus of the BIM WB would be to create a new "layer" of interface on top of all this: Wizards, setup screens, dialogs, etc. The idea is to explore what an interesting BIM workflow would be, how it could be more intuitive and easier to learn.
(...)
Do you want to keep the focus of this BIM Workbench for design exclusively?
FoxitReader_2018-03-11_11-33-54.png
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yorik
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby yorik » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:05 pm

@paullee Interesting ideas!

I also think managing sites, buildings and levels in one single dialog might make it quickly overcomplicated. But one for "project setup" (sites + buildings) and one for levels, might work well.

You are right that the windows dialog must show which window serves which space(s). That's important information. And yeah a further idea is, from that dialog, produce a spreadsheet exactly like yours.

The idea behind axis/levels/floors would indeed be to merge all this in a more simple structure. But using axes to define levels doesn't seem such a good idea to me anymore. Now I think it might be better to have a more easy to use Floor object (which could display a level mark in the 3D view, exactly like the axes). "Floor" should also be renamed to something else (Storey? Level?) because floor is ambiguous, it could also designate the material you step on. But Storey and Level both refer to a "stacked" situation (one on top of another), I'd like to find a word that is more generic, that would allow for example to have two building parts next to each other. Maybe "Building Part", simply?
Also I want to try to make it from an App::Part instead of a Group, so it can easily be moved around and benefit from all the capabilities of App::Parts.

@bitacovir of course. The idea is ultimately to be able to do it all. But personally I'm more the step-by-step type of person :) I don't have much confidence in making so big plans ahead, but go for it, unleash your ideas, the idea here is to experiment.
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby bernd » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:31 am

I like the idea of a more generic name for the floor. It does not need to be one on each other. Mostly it is true but I had buildings we splitted side by side.

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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby yorik » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:31 pm

Yes and that would be useful for all kinds of "components" of a building that need to be replicated. Imagine for example a building made of containers, or the different WC stalls in a public bathroom. Anything that would benefit from having several objects packed into a structure. That would make it pretty powerful
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby bitacovir » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:48 am

yorik wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:05 pm
@bitacovir of course. The idea is ultimately to be able to do it all. But personally I'm more the step-by-step type of person :) I don't have much confidence in making so big plans ahead, but go for it, unleash your ideas, the idea here is to experiment.
I know some FC features are not fully developed, but I was thinking that your BIM welcome dialog could include buttons to some of those areas that I showed in the pictures. Buttons for:
a) building setup dialog for those who want to use it for design
b) quantity surveyor setup dialog. A new dialog window for those who will use FC for cost calculation. (a workflow using spreadsheet workbench, schedule tool, etc)
c) construction planning setup dialog. Another dialog window for those who will use FC for building construction process (Arch Site, Flamingo tools and level manager dialog could be useful for that).
and so on...
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby yorik » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:13 pm

Very good! This is exactly the kind of stuff that is interesting to explore here.
All these things can greatly enhance the way new users can enter and learn how to work with freecad.

The building setup is something we are already doing. That's the easy one.

The two others, we might think a bit more about what would be that setup, or even if it is really necessary to set anything up. I have no clear idea about that yet. What would want to do a typical user who would want to do these two things with FreeCAD?

In the case of quantity surveying I would think:

1) Open a model (typically import an IFC file)
2) Gather some stuff in a spreadsheet
3) Measure some stuff manually (survey tool)

Maybe we need to think further about the integration between 1) the different levels, windows, space BIM dialogs, 2) the Arch Schedule tool, 3) the Arch survey tool. At the moment each one works in its own corner, ideally the person would want to start a new spreadsheet, and start filling it using all these tools...

In the case of construction planning:

1) Open a model (typically import an IFC file)
2) Check if there is any planning info (We need a planning dialog certainly)
3) Create "deadlines" (or whatever the right term would be)
4) Attribute project elements to deadlines
5) Export a spreadsheet