BIM Workbench

A forum dedicated to the Draft, Arch and BIM workbenches development.
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Kunda1
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby Kunda1 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:51 pm

This is sounding more and more like a potential GSOC project. One step closer to a working BOM.
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bitacovir
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby bitacovir » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:15 am

yorik wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:13 pm

The two others, we might think a bit more about what would be that setup, or even if it is really necessary to set anything up. I have no clear idea about that yet. What would want to do a typical user who would want to do these two things with FreeCAD?

In the case of quantity surveying I would think:

1) Open a model (typically import an IFC file)
2) Gather some stuff in a spreadsheet
3) Measure some stuff manually (survey tool)

Maybe we need to think further about the integration between 1) the different levels, windows, space BIM dialogs, 2) the Arch Schedule tool, 3) the Arch survey tool. At the moment each one works in its own corner, ideally the person would want to start a new spreadsheet, and start filling it using all these tools...
Basically, you need to generate a spreadsheet report with columns for items (materials), dimensions (areas, vol, etc).
The dialog should allow you to do:

1) Select and open a IFC model (this could be displayed with tags or labels...)
2) To show a list of architectural items that you can select (windows, floors, ceilings, walls, doors, etc). You select one or more.
3) To show a list of info to display in the spreadsheet (name, role, material, volume, m2, etc)
4) a CREATE button to generate a spreadsheets (one or more) in the SpreadsheetWB with the items and the info of each one.
5) the dialog could have a final text explaining how to use the survey tool for further check. (maybe it could give you the option of hide the rest of architecture elements to show only your item selected).

And then you can start again with another group of items...
The quantity surveyor will take this spreadsheet and will copy in a document software to add values...
yorik wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:13 pm
In the case of construction planning:

1) Open a model (typically import an IFC file)
2) Check if there is any planning info (We need a planning dialog certainly)
3) Create "deadlines" (or whatever the right term would be)
4) Attribute project elements to deadlines
5) Export a spreadsheet
I will include:
1) Locate and Quantify Scaffoldings in the project (flamingo could be useful for this)
2) locate and Quantify tower cranes.
3) locate and quantify construction facilities (containers)
4) Calculate the volume of soil movement or land scraping (arch site can be used for this)
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby bitacovir » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:39 am

yorik wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:05 pm
I'm more the step-by-step type of person :) I don't have much confidence in making so big plans ahead.
Well... Now there are so many new things coming: robots, artificial intelligence, etc. that I think the near future is uncertain. Probably in 10 years people are not going to use BIM or CAD software as a professional tool anymore (machines will do). Who knows... Maybe the future of FreeCAD is not in the professional world, but in the world of Hobbies and "Do it by yourself" fans.
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby yorik » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:19 pm

bitacovir wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:39 am
Maybe the future of FreeCAD is not in the professional world, but in the world of Hobbies and "Do it by yourself" fans.
... or, to be audacious, the future of BIM is not in the professional world, but in the world of Hobbies and "Do it by yourself" fans. :D

Good additions above... We should have some tools to manage scaffoldings and other "heavy-duty" worksite elements...
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby bitacovir » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:44 pm

yorik wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:19 pm
bitacovir wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:39 am
Maybe the future of FreeCAD is not in the professional world, but in the world of Hobbies and "Do it by yourself" fans.
... or, to be audacious, the future of BIM is not in the professional world, but in the world of Hobbies and "Do it by yourself" fans. :D

Good additions above... We should have some tools to manage scaffoldings and other "heavy-duty" worksite elements...
Sure you know better than anyone the potential of BIM technology (your contribution is remarkable because is from outside of the corporate world).
What I understand about BIM is the I-Information is as important as the M-Modelling.
In the case of FreeCAD, once the modelling features are completed, it will be the turn of information (DATA) features.
I mean BIM Workbench should consider features to manage DATA (generate data, visualise data, organise data, mining data, etc) from BIM projects.
This will be useful for areas such as Quantity Surveying, Energy Efficiency, Facility Management and the world of Internet of Things (IoT) with their sensors in buildings (and insane generation of new data). Of course these disciplines have their own professional tools for these tasks...

Anyway, step by step as you say... the first area for your BIM WB could be facilitate the manage of DATA (for quantity surveying...).
Here an interesting article about BIM-QSurveying http://bimsg.org/resources/other-softwa ... im-for-qs/
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby yorik » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:36 pm

The thing is also, we hear much about that, how important the data, or the Information part in "BIM" is,but honestly up to now I very rarely saw any file that contains something really usable. Revit exports a lot of properties for each object, but that are almost only useful to revit itself.

Most IFC models I come across really contain not much more than geometry and materials... Not that my experiences covers the whole BIM world of course.

Of course the IFC format has a lot more of interesting stuff to look at and implement, and it's also something to work on, have a good editor for IFC properties. But at the moment it is still very unclear what all the "additional data" would be, what standard they would/should have, etc.

Maybe it's actually a good opportunity to start defining that ourselves :mrgreen:
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Kunda1
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby Kunda1 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:21 pm

Adding this thread about BOM Functionality here
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby Cyril » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:07 pm

yorik wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:05 pm
I also think managing sites, buildings and levels in one single dialog might make it quickly overcomplicated. But one for "project setup" (sites + buildings) and one for levels, might work well.

The idea behind axis/levels/floors would indeed be to merge all this in a more simple structure. But using axes to define levels doesn't seem such a good idea to me anymore. Now I think it might be better to have a more easy to use Floor object (which could display a level mark in the 3D view, exactly like the axes). "Floor" should also be renamed to something else (Storey? Level?) because floor is ambiguous, it could also designate the material you step on. But Storey and Level both refer to a "stacked" situation (one on top of another), I'd like to find a word that is more generic, that would allow for example to have two building parts next to each other. Maybe "Building Part", simply?
Each software has it's own jargon. It doesn't help collaboration purposes and learning curves.
As much for this as for the rest. Why not trying to use the same jargon and structure defined in IFC ? It would help user to get into IFC. As you said model are currently poorly informed. Some editor do not make so much effort to solve it but it also come from the fact that users almost don't know at all IFC capabilities and how to configure exports.
Levels is called IfcBuildingStorey in IFC4 so I would vote to call it Storey or BuildingStorey.

IfcSpatialZone looks good for a «building part». Also if we refer to IFC specs. It looks like IfcBuilding can refer to a complex (multiple buildings), an element (a single building) or a partial building so «Building Part» would looks alike.
A level mark would also be very useful.
yorik wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:36 pm
The thing is also, we hear much about that, how important the data, or the Information part in "BIM" is,but honestly up to now I very rarely saw any file that contains something really usable. Revit exports a lot of properties for each object, but that are almost only useful to revit itself.

Most IFC models I come across really contain not much more than geometry and materials... Not that my experiences covers the whole BIM world of course.

Of course the IFC format has a lot more of interesting stuff to look at and implement, and it's also something to work on, have a good editor for IFC properties. But at the moment it is still very unclear what all the "additional data" would be, what standard they would/should have, etc.

Maybe it's actually a good opportunity to start defining that ourselves :mrgreen:
I heavily use data to design HVAC / energy systems with revit. To me the I is way far more interesting/important than the shiny 3D / quantification part. I'm currently trying to explore IFC specs a lot to hopefully :
- be able convince customers / state / international organisation / non profit etc… to rely on IFC for long term building exploitation. (Also dreaming to convince them to invest in FreeCAD)
- be able to develop for freecad rather than for revit as soon as possible :D. Having a very close relation between FC/IFC to be able to fully use IFC import / export as you proved possible.

(An other heavily used feature is to be able to work on the «same» file by synchronising change / managing rights. I haven't see a discussion about this yet on forum but that's another (tough ?) subject).
I blog about HVAC / BIM / Energy : pythoncvc.net. If you like you can follow the RSS feed.
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bitacovir
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby bitacovir » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:00 pm

yorik wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:36 pm
(...) but honestly up to now I very rarely saw any file that contains something really usable.
That is true. Just a couple of weeks ago I was in a government event for the OpenDataDay. And one of the things discussed there was how important is to have good quality data and clear formats to start sharing this data. To make it usable (there is already an official guideline for opendata formats in the government, but it is not followed for all gov staff). It is a common problem.
Kunda1 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:21 pm
Adding this thread about BOM Functionality here
Thanks. I see the topic has been discussed in some way.
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Re: BIM Workbench

Postby paullee » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:53 am

bitacovir wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:42 pm
yorik wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:42 pm
(...)
The main focus of the BIM WB would be to create a new "layer" of interface on top of all this: Wizards, setup screens, dialogs, etc. The idea is to explore what an interesting BIM workflow would be, how it could be more intuitive and easier to learn.
(...)
Do you want to keep the focus of this BIM Workbench for design exclusively?
FoxitReader_2018-03-11_11-33-54.png
It is terrific somebody has better understanding thus vision about this and guide the development direction!