[Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

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carlopav
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[Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Postby carlopav » Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:47 am

First of all, many thanks to realthunder for providing the base object to play around and to yorik for accepting the tools into the BIM Workbench!

I'd like report into this topic the updates to my experiments with a kind of "Assembly" approach to BIM modelling, in the hope it can improve the current modelling experience. This also go into the direction to address last year discussion about separating semantics and representation of construction elements (profile extrusion vs wall) as Ifc try to.

Experimental Arch tools are available in the BIM workbench, if you like to try them out and give me a feedback it would be really appreciated!
BIM experimental toolbar.JPG
BIM experimental toolbar.JPG (32.89 KiB) Viewed 1161 times

At the moment the available tools are:
- a Wall object that can be parametrically auto-joined with other walls as well as embed any kind of shape;
- an Opening object: that can represent a void or embed a window or a door;
- an ArchView object: that provides the infrastructure for 2d section drawing and it's based on current Arch.SectionPlane, Draft.WorkingPlaneProxy and Draft.Shape2dView objects.

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I recorded some videos to showcase the prototypes, you can see them in this YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ture=share)

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The rest of the topic follow the many try and errors I encountered during the development process so it may be quite boring to read, but i leave to you the decision ;)
Last edited by carlopav on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:37 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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paullee
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to BIM modelling (BIM Assembly?)

Postby paullee » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:54 pm

I think for a while after you raise this issue in earlier thread. Assembly concept sounds convincing.

See this thread and video therein.
how link window to the wall

Do you just want e.g. the door / window to move together with the wall ?

Or do you want to attach a door / window to the junction / corner of walls ?



Door or Window attach and align to Wall and Intersection
phpBB [video]
Last edited by paullee on Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
carlopav
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Location: Venice, Italy

Re: [Discussion] A different approach to BIM modelling (BIM Assembly?)

Postby carlopav » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:21 pm

This is ideed good, and if we find interesting to evaluate the possibility to invest on the approach i'm proposing, I'd like to support Arch-sketch, but in a different way:
- I'd like every wall segment to be indipendent and bound to just one sketch sub element.
- I'd like every window to be inserted into the wall.
So the wall will be the same if it's bound to a sketch element or on a wall-trace or just do not have a base object.

Anyway I still do not have it clear... I'd like others to jump into the discussion (also to say that it's everything wrong)
Last edited by carlopav on Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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paullee
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to BIM modelling (BIM Assembly?)

Postby paullee » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:32 pm

carlopav wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:21 pm
This is ideed good, and if we find interesting to evaluate the possibility to invest on the approach i'm proposing, I'd like to support Arch-sketch, but in a different way:
- I'd like every wall segment to be indipendent and bound to just one sketch sub element.
- I'd like every window to be inserted into the wall.
So the wall will be the same if it's bound to a sketch element or on a wall-trace or just do not have a base object.

Anyway I still do not have it clear... I'd like others to jump into the discussion (also to say that it's everything wrong)
Yes, I learn your idea in your earlier discussion, just not sure your whole approach in making a full model.

And yes, let more peoples to show their workflow :)
carlopav
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Location: Venice, Italy

Re: [Discussion] A different approach to BIM modelling (BIM Assembly?)

Postby carlopav » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:11 pm

And this is what I have in mind for the super basic wall without BaseGeometry.
It's a Part Wedge, where the splay is controlled by an angle. This angle can be automatically calculated according to the the wall it have to join.

Cattura.JPG
Cattura.JPG (61.6 KiB) Viewed 2607 times
EDIT: Thinking about it: Also the simple wall object should not have it's geometry generation implicit! It's better that the wall will just perform boolean operations on linked children. So also creating the most simple wall, will produce the wall container and a child WallShape object. This will keep everything really plain and clear.
Last edited by carlopav on Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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carlopav
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to BIM modelling (BIM Assembly?)

Postby carlopav » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:58 pm

That can be easily automated to match the joined wall seamlessly... :D

prova join.gif
prova join.gif (336.88 KiB) Viewed 2587 times

EDIT: thinking about this tonight. This is not the right approach. The wall should be dumb instead, and I think we need another object, a kind of solver to compute the wall joinings and to keep track of them, so we do not run into circular dependencies. The user will move the wall, and then recompute the wall joints... Let's see!
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carlopav
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to BIM modelling (BIM Assembly?)

Postby carlopav » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:22 am

A small attempt to imagine how the user will work with the wall: he can toggle the display mode (we should find a good name to define it, ?Toggle wall compound/components?) and move graphically the childrens, later he can toggle it again and go back to the whole wall compound.

display mode.gif
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Attachments
wall.FCMacro
(9.55 KiB) Downloaded 42 times
Last edited by carlopav on Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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carlopav
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to BIM modelling (BIM Assembly?)

Postby carlopav » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:50 am

And here you have a first idea of the most basic wall Object to be linked to the BaseGeometry property. (By the way, this could be driven by a sketch segment, but i don't want to mess up the current wall geometry... @Yorik, do you think we can apply a trim angle to the current wall geometry like in the figure below?)

wall draft idea.jpeg
wall draft idea.jpeg (135.37 KiB) Viewed 2537 times

I think Length property have to be splited out into LengthForward and LengthBackward, because this will make possible to the wall to extend one side or the other to join with other wall objects.
And should be possible to control the 3 main layers cut angles.
EDIT: I hope to not be too annoying, but i really wish to share every step of this process so I can get ideas and corrections! Be extremely critic, please!
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paullee
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to BIM modelling (BIM Assembly?)

Postby paullee » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:07 am

carlopav wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:50 am
And here you have a first idea of the most basic wall Object to be linked to the BaseGeometry property. (By the way, this could be driven by a sketch segment, but i don't want to mess up the current wall geometry... @Yorik, do you think we can apply a trim angle to the current wall geometry like in the figure below?)
Looking forward to someone else to discuss :) Maybe you need to ping him or he may miss it.

Just curious how you do the cut angle. I want to do that for each segment of ArchWall based on Sketch, just not found a gap and not heroic enough to start attacking that.
carlopav
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:49 pm
Location: Venice, Italy

Re: [Discussion] A different approach to BIM modelling (BIM Assembly?)

Postby carlopav » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:48 am

I'm sure Yorik is watchin all of us from above (northern europe) :D :P
paullee wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:07 am
Just curious how you do the cut angle.
At the moment I am just using several Part_Wedge objects, they work like a charm. But in the future I'll want to change this, because you can't have a curved wall segment with this approach. So finding a good way to implement what you say (start and end cut for linear extrusion based on a sketch) seems a fundamental task to me.
EDIT: I prefer to use LinearExtrusion for the current wall object geometry, so we can go into the direction of separating semantics from geometry! @Moult will for sure agree :)
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