[Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

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paullee
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by paullee »

dimitar wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:08 pm The biggest challenge i still have with Freecad is the lack of usability for the super basic BIM generation that I've become accustomed to with Revit and VisualARQ (BIM plugin for Rhino):
-walls
-hosted doors/windows
-organising a file in a way that it's easy to have types of doors and windows that can continue to be developed and updated where all instance are around.

For walls, a sketch works most of the time, and much better than a few years ago. I find this to be the fastest workflow and the most parametric. There are still the occasional hiccups like this:
FreeCAD_9yIU6KiM4r.png

It is however, quite a different workflow form typical one, of just drawing walls, and being able to trim/extend, duplicate and dimension directly between the wall elements. This is where i see the work being developed great to bridge usability.

For hosted doors and windows, right now, it's a pain. I have found a way to host the lines on a line on the sketch, but it gets tricky with duplicating, hosting/subtracting.
Indeed, lots of improvements required :D

Walls on Sketch
I find using Sketch a potential and I create the Villa Savoye Model largely based on this worflow. BTW, yes, I recently note that hiccups, though there is workaround, but I am trying to look for a permanent solution.

Trim/Extend Wall / Sketch Edge
If Wall are based on Sketch, below may be helpful
https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Sketcher_Trimming
https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Sketcher_Extend

Hosted doors/windows
Can help to test and comment ?
Intuitive Automatic Windows/Doors + Equipment Placement


Not sure I understand you correctly and fully, and not sure about organising type of windows and doors ?

EDIT
p.s. can you explain " a way to host the lines on a line on the sketch, but it gets tricky with duplicating, hosting/subtracting.". Thanks.
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dimitar
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by dimitar »

paullee wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:28 pm EDIT
p.s. can you explain " a way to host the lines on a line on the sketch, but it gets tricky with duplicating, hosting/subtracting.". Thanks.
This door's sketch is hosted by one of the lines, and with a parameter moved into the right position. This way, if edit the wall sketch, the door will adjust into the right place.
FreeCAD_9u750yw5US.png
FreeCAD_9u750yw5US.png (186.91 KiB) Viewed 2106 times
Yes, in sketches, the trim/extend functions work well, indeed, but not so much in the draft/arch/bim workbenches?

Will take a look at your thread, nice to see you're trying to resolve this issue :)

Doors and windows should be types - e.g. door type 1 and type 2. All type 1 doors should be the same, such that if one of the instances of a type 1 door gets modified, all the other type one doors should follow. I believe this can be done by referencing the sketch? I've done this before with having an unhosted "master" door, with the rest of the doors being clones, but it took a while to subtract, and reference the correct wall properties for each door instance, as they had to be placed completely manually.
paullee
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by paullee »

dimitar wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:10 pm This door's sketch is hosted by one of the lines, and with a parameter moved into the right position. This way, if edit the wall sketch, the door will adjust into the right place.

...

Yes, in sketches, the trim/extend functions work well, indeed, but not so much in the draft/arch/bim workbenches?

Will take a look at your thread, nice to see you're trying to resolve this issue :)

Doors and windows should be types - e.g. door type 1 and type 2. All type 1 doors should be the same, such that if one of the instances of a type 1 door gets modified, all the other type one doors should follow. I believe this can be done by referencing the sketch? I've done this before with having an unhosted "master" door, with the rest of the doors being clones, but it took a while to subtract, and reference the correct wall properties for each door instance, as they had to be placed completely manually.

I see! @JQL (the same person in OSArch) in another thread find MapMode NormalToEdge the best approach First Try with FreeCAD and a Sketch based Architectural Workflow. I create a Macro for him and would like to support that in my SketchArch add-on. This approach need @realthunder's branch to tackle the impact that maybe if one edit the base Sketch.

It seem @Carlopav's approach is most direct in comparison :)

In addition to MapMode, there is other experiment in Intuitive Automatic Windows/Doors + Equipment Placement to place either Sketch or Window/Equipment. I stick to this approach currently :D


Placing ArchWindow(Door) + ArchEquipment / Base Sketch

Yes, I think placing the base Sketch of a Window / Door is one of the approach. I find this approach useful when it is an unique design in the building, or when one want to layout the Window/Door in relation to the base edge / Wall. You may find it in my Villa Savoye (all 4 facades Windows use this approach) and the 'Comments Request ...' thread.

Then, I find just let the Sketch sit at (0,0,0) and place the Window(Door) itself works best when you have multiple same objects in your building. Placing these Window/Equipment Objects with the experiment I am going through is quite fast, though I far far from being capable as @carlopav to code especially the GUI things.


Cloning Window(Door) / Equipment

I think currently the best thing works in FC is Clone (Draft Clone). All the Doors in my Villa Savoye model are Clones. They create opening in the Walls as their generic counterpart. So you do not need to go through creation of the Door object (in fact you can Copy + Paste the door, but just remove the Base Sketch from duplicating in the dialog box) - if you like something slightly differently other than strictly Clone)

But I am pushing hard to make Links, a lightweight counterpart by @Realthunder so that it works like Linux's link, or Windows' shortcut. When you have a huge number of repetitive (? curtain wall element), it would not increase the file size and slow them FC dramatically.

All the Links can have the 'Intuitive' Automatic Placement support in the discussion thread mentioned above.

And in other thread about Links use in Arch/BIM wb, a few issues are resolved.
[ PR : Link in Arch/BIM -- 3 ] Link of Window Not Shown in ArchView/TechDraw
[ PR : Link in Arch/BIM -- 4 ] Link of Door : Swing Not Shown in ArchView/TechDraw
I hope @Yorik can resolve export to IFC (currently no Links are exported :( )

Any better workflow anybody can share ? :D
GianPiero
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by GianPiero »

Hello Carlo,
I really enjoyed your BIM work.
I am totally unfamiliar with FreeCAD and its potential which at first sight seems exceptional to me.
I would like to contact you to share some ideas about the actual development potential of a MEP application based on this platform.
If you want to learn more, contact me.
GianPiero
//
Ciao Carlo,
Mi è piaciuto molto il tuo lavoro in ambito BIM.
Io sono totalmente digiuno sul FreeCAD e sulle sue potenzialita che a prima vista mi sembrano eccezzionali.
Vorrei contattarti per condividere qualche idea in merito alle effettive potenzialità di sviluppo di un applicativo MEP basato su questa piattaforma.
Se ti va di approfondire contattami.
GianPiero
carlopav
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by carlopav »

GianPiero wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:43 pm I would like to contact you to share some ideas about the actual development potential of a MEP application based on this platform.
If you want to learn more, contact me.
Ciao Gianpiero, thanks, I can confirm FreeCAD potential is enormous, and getting used to the python devtools is quite straightforward.
Sure we can have a jisty meet so we can chat a bit. Take also a look at @cyril work https://pythoncvc.net/?author=1&lang=en
follow my experiments on BIM modelling for architecture design
carlopav
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by carlopav »

Just a reminder to me. I'd like to try to extend current Part Attacher to have a mode that can stick a wall to an edge or a plane, just orienting it's LCS XZ plane and moving the object.
Here is the branch: https://github.com/carlopav/FreeCAD/tre ... nsion-wall
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carlopav
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by carlopav »

Another reminder.
Change the Opening object to not contain a default window. Use instead a scheme of the Tree like the attached document.
PS Works only with realthunder fork, to use it in upstream master we still have to wait for the configuration table PR to be merged.
Attachments
Finestra tipo.FCStd
(79.31 KiB) Downloaded 41 times
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paullee
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by paullee »

carlopav wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:10 pm Just a reminder to me. I'd like to try to extend current Part Attacher to have a mode that can stick a wall to an edge or a plane, just orienting it's LCS XZ plane and moving the object.
Here is the branch: https://github.com/carlopav/FreeCAD/tre ... nsion-wall
I have a look and find it link to a cpp, something I have no idea about, but find -

Code: Select all

"WallToAxis",
Are you suggest add this capability to native Attachment so it follow the 'axis' of a Wall ? I knew nothing about cpp and implement this (if not mistaken the intention) via python with mathematics, someone had suggested similar capabilities should be added to Attachment extension. This would be great as cpp should be much faster than python to my understanding. Maybe if you can slightly elaborate this idea if you have a gap please :)

In fact, any further idea is 'attaching to a Room/Space' (on top of attaching to a Wall Axis).
carlopav
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by carlopav »

paullee wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:55 pm Are you suggest add this capability to native Attachment so it follow the 'axis' of a Wall ?
I think that would be possibile, even if i was rather thinking to the opposite: the Wall xz plane to follow a given axis (or a given Edge, like a sketch straight edge).
I also di not understand much of c++, but since i'm willing to try,i think that this could be a nice task.
I'll keep you up to date ;)
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paullee
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Re: [Discussion] A different approach to Arch modelling (Arch Assembly?)

Post by paullee »

carlopav wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:52 pm I think that would be possibile, even if i was rather thinking to the opposite: the Wall xz plane to follow a given axis (or a given Edge, like a sketch straight edge).
Thanks. Currently ArchWall somehow 'follow' / 'build on' edges of Draft Wire / Sketch Edges. You are suggesting your experimental Wall has the capability to follow Draft Wire / Sketch (placement, direction, length etc. I guess) with Attachment Extension support right?
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