ArchView, DraftView problems (Fuse Arch, Text, Group to DraftView...)

[Bojan_Bekic]

Hi guys!

I'm testing FC by doing small professional work in it (always a good idea, right ). It's just a redrawing of some simple house and then marking some changes, simple stuff.

Modeling goes quite good and there are many really cool features already usable! Windows need some messy workarounds, but all doable.

But I found no reliable way to make usable drawings that can contain all those features. The problems I encountered:

- Fuse Arch fails in ArchView and DraftView
- Space object's text lines spacing fails in ArchView
- Groups containing draft objects cannot be turned to DraftViews, as it worked before
- Building part cannot be turned into ArchView, as it worked before (not a big problem)
- Exporting Shape2DView and dimensions to dxf together does not work (at least here, one exporter exports only Shape, the other only dimensions)
- No way to export Space text to dxf
- No way to have the colors of the materials in Shape2DView

Also (a little off topic), I noticed that while creating a dimension, it's not possible to snap to an existing dimension line any more.

FC bug.jpg (358.12 KiB) Viewed 1188 times

FC bug_1.jpg (401.59 KiB) Viewed 1188 times

I'm sending the file also.

Brahmstrasse.FCStd

(271.9 KiB) Downloaded 31 times

Are these known bugs, or I'm missing something? Any ideas for workarounds?

I'm planning to finish the model in FC so I can practice, detect other problems, etc.. and if nothing else works, just retreive the basic 2D data from Shape2DViews exported to dxf, and then continue working in Ares Commander.

Thanks for your time!

My spec:

OS: KDE neon User Edition 5.19 (KDE//usr/share/xsessions/plasma)
Word size of OS: 64-bit
Word size of FreeCAD: 64-bit
Version: 0.19.22198 (Git) AppImage
Build type: Release
Branch: master
Hash: 76e74294894bbce46d006e149315c6274d206278
Python version: 3.8.5
Qt version: 5.12.5
Coin version: 4.0.0
OCC version: 7.4.0
Locale: Serbian/Serbia (sr_RS)

[paullee]

But I found no reliable way to make usable drawings that can contain all those features. The problems I encountered:

- Fuse Arch fails in ArchView and DraftView
- Space object's text lines spacing fails in ArchView
- Groups containing draft objects cannot be turned to DraftViews, as it worked before
- Building part cannot be turned into ArchView, as it worked before (not a big problem)
- Exporting Shape2DView and dimensions to dxf together does not work (at least here, one exporter exports only Shape, the other only dimensions)
- No way to export Space text to dxf
- No way to have the colors of the materials in Shape2DView

Also (a little off topic), I noticed that while creating a dimension, it's not possible to snap to an existing dimension line any more.

Please further model and report your findings here, there have been some reports on similar regression I think.

1. When DraftView FuseArch is turned to False, there will not be incorrect fill
2. However, the wall segments are not merged in appearance
3. Alternative is creation of the Wall base e.g. in rectangle, rather than 4 separates lines
4. In fact, I use 1 sketch to do the base for Wall for the whole floor plan
5. Another Alternative, is add e.g. the 3 walls to 1 wall in Additions

Ping

Screenshot from 2020-08-14 02-16-55.png (184.04 KiB) Viewed 1177 times

Screenshot from 2020-08-14 02-26-09.png (153.13 KiB) Viewed 1177 times

[Bojan_Bekic]

Thanks.

Yes, we have to work and test much more, I think. I have the feeling that only a few bugs are keeping FC from being already very useful, but for now they seem like showstopers.

I think that for an architect designing a building, organizing the layout, especially from scratch, it's impractical to use sketches and constraints, it feels quite limiting, unnatural (unless it's a parametric masses exploration, then its really really great!). Drawing walls, moving them around (mostly together with their bases), adding and deleting and changing windows (also with their bases tied to them) on the fly is my ideal. And all that without the necessity of having smart behavior if it's not rock solid (for me it's not a problem to select a wall and it's windows and move them together). Of course, this could all be the bias of my decades old workflow , dunno.

Adding walls to parent wall is also limiting in that regard (moving the parts, window in children etc...), but sometimes feels like a viable workaround. I could try to use it now, yes.

I believe that Yorik's solution - Fuse Arch + fill color of the material is the best and simplest way to go, if it can be realistically implemented.

Of course, in the end it would be a must for the materials also to have a hatch fill, like they have color. But that's probably a lot of work for now.

Moving windows freely in walls is a big problem also, my "workflow" just exploded in my face . Will have to redo / rethink them.

[carlopav]

Moving windows freely in walls is a big problem also, my "workflow" just exploded in my face . Will have to redo / rethink them.

Perhaps you can have a try of the experimental new wall/opening tools in BIM workbench (https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 65#p384404). They still miss many of the features that current tools have, but I think they already allow a quite smooth workflow!

[vanuan]

I think that for an architect designing a building, organizing the layout, especially from scratch, it's impractical to use sketches and constraints, it feels quite limiting, unnatural (unless it's a parametric masses exploration, then its really really great!). Drawing walls, moving them around (mostly together with their bases), adding and deleting and changing windows (also with their bases tied to them) on the fly is my ideal. And all that without the necessity of having smart behavior if it's not rock solid (for me it's not a problem to select a wall and it's windows and move them together).

What do you think about the coordinate system? How do you usually position walls in space, in Revit, ArchiCAD, or elsewhere?

For example, you want a house 10x10m, design a floor plan and everything. Then you realize you need to increase square footage so that you have 12x12m. How do you lock some walls and move the other? Do you use axis, gridlines, snapping, etc? What about other objects? Should they be positioned in relation to walls or independently?

It appears your workflow is better served by tools like SketchUp or Blender.

[paullee]

A few point for discussion, seems different peoples prefer different worflow :

- Check the Villa Savoye Model, that use mainly Sketch as base.
- An experiment done to let a Window to attach to Wall X, at a height of Y, offset from the end by Z, so the window stick w/ the position regardless the wall's editing afterwards
- ArchFuse works in TechDraw ArchView
.

[Bojan_Bekic]

Moving windows freely in walls is a big problem also, my "workflow" just exploded in my face . Will have to redo / rethink them.

Perhaps you can have a try of the experimental new wall/opening tools in BIM workbench (https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 65#p384404). They still miss many of the features that current tools have, but I think they already allow a quite smooth workflow!

I think your work is exactly what is needed for the workflow I'm describing! And I just saw that you added editing. Material support for arch fuse is also needed. I havent looked into custom windows, but more options is needed with windows and doors, of course. Wall orientation also. But it's a great start, your automation IS rock solid, it seems

For now, this is how the Section displays the elements:

FC wall.jpg (397.65 KiB) Viewed 1040 times

FC wall_2.jpg (361.14 KiB) Viewed 1040 times

[carlopav]

I think your work is exactly what is needed for the workflow I'm describing!

Thanks!

For now, this is how the Section displays the elements:

Yes this have to be adapted too: the new tools introduce relative coordinates system in Arch objects, like App::Part for mechanical Assembly, so I'm slowly adapting all the Draft and Arch wb to support that (Move and Rotate already work quite good except when using App::Link). It just happen to be a lot of work

[Bojan_Bekic]

What do you think about the coordinate system? How do you usually position walls in space, in Revit, ArchiCAD, or elsewhere?

For example, you want a house 10x10m, design a floor plan and everything. Then you realize you need to increase square footage so that you have 12x12m. How do you lock some walls and move the other? Do you use axis, gridlines, snapping, etc? What about other objects? Should they be positioned in relation to walls or independently?

It appears your workflow is better served by tools like SketchUp or Blender.

My main tool is 2D CAD (Ares Commander for now), but I have worked for about a year in ArchiCAD, though a very long time ago. I also use Blender a lot, but only for ArchViz.

The workflow was very similar. In the first stages of the design I almost never use axes, I add them later as a tool for better communicating the design. Of course, I use snapping . I never use grids, or pay attention much on the coordinate system, as they can impose on your design (at least that's the habit all the way from the university).

As for the changes, they are even easier this way, you control the area with Space objects, for example, and develop the idea by moving the walls. What must not be moved, u just don't move If you have to change the floor plan like you describe, it sometimes leads to a bit complex changes in the spaces organization anyway, you have to tryout different stuff often and that for me feels easier if u just move the stuff around, draw, delete...

In this workflow, constraints could be used on the urbanistic regulation lines, for example, to make it easy end obvious where you cannot go, and similar stuf...

I think this kind of doing things reflects my experience with firms from Serbia, Croatia, Czech Republic, (mostly AutoCAD, some Revit), Austria (Allplan and some ArchiCAD and AutoCAD), so it could be a regional thing, dunno.

[Bojan_Bekic]

A few point for discussion, seems different peoples prefer different worflow :

- Check the Villa Savoye Model, that use mainly Sketch as base.
- An experiment done to let a Window to attach to Wall X, at a height of Y, offset from the end by Z, so the window stick w/ the position regardless the wall's editing afterwards
- ArchFuse works in TechDraw ArchView
.

Yes, it's a very interesting and important theme for developing the tools, i think.

I will check VS, thanks. It might be though that Sketch is useful here because it's not the process of designing from scratch.

It also may be that I just haven't tried Sketch system enough and am missing a very useful point