[Architecture discussion] Ideas for a user friendly way to generate 2D drawings for architects

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ABeton
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[Architecture discussion] Ideas for a user friendly way to generate 2D drawings for architects

Postby ABeton » Tue May 11, 2021 9:44 pm

As the title says I think that the difficulty to easily generate 2D architecture drawings out of 3D objects is the main problem for FreeCAD to be adopted more by architects. The Arch and BIM workbenches as they are, are really impressive as it is, but we need to think of a way to improve them when it comes to this.

This is obviously not an easy problem to solve, it would be a big rehaul, so if could dicuss the topic here and make a plan on how it could be done, it would be a good start. Later either us, or other people can use the plan as a guidline to make improvements step by step.

I will just brainstorm some ideas here, and later can edit this post as more ideas roll in and hopefully from this get a concrete plan. So some of my ideas:

Goals

1. separated 2D and 3D drawing views(this one could be tough to do)

2. a dedicated 2D view button perhaps which when pressed would show all objects in 2D

3. each architecture object would be represented by both a 3D model and a 2D drawing at the same time(when it is created), and these could be toggled with only one click:
  • with this we would not have to use Shape 2D View at the end and wait until it is all computed when we make changes
  • the 2D objects would be automaticaly put into the appropriate layers
4. walls with multilayers(we already have this :) ) which all nicely connect when they intersect, this is not possible in a lot of cases now:
  • simple and fast creation of these kind of walls is a must for user friendliness.
5. being able to draw everything from 2D view, like windows and doors

6. windows and doors should be able to reckognize any wall they enter and make a hole in it, both when inserted the first time and when later moved(the first option works already)

7. windows and doors could be primarily created in the Part Design workbench(especialy when the topology fix is fully implemented) and added to the parts library [ALREADY WORKING]

8. improved parts library(I have some ideas what to do about it):
  • easily link, import, save stuff(in the BIM library)
  • add export to github(in the BIM library)
  • 3D preview and edit on click
9. improved hatching

10. a way to easily export 2D drawings of complex drawings(in 3D view):
  • export a custom size selected from the 3D view(for example if a rectangle is selected export an image that is the size of that rectangle)

Ideas on how to achieve this:

Walls(I don't know how current walls work at the moment, so pardon my ignorance)
Wall layer would be generated from a line using offset after which a face is created. This face would represent the 2D view of the object. A wall layer should have a certain material attached to it. Each wall should consist of some number of layers(this is already implemented). Layers of walls should be able to communicate between them, so that layers of the same type would all be under one boolean union. For layers of different types we should use boolean difference of the boolean unions to get a propper function system.

I don't know if this way will be possible for computers to handle, but it is the only way I see at the moment. When all the walls are joined we could extrude them at the end. It is important to hide all this stuff from the end user so they can only see simple objects in the object tree. Also walls should be easily movable by moving the underlying line and the line should be properly accentuated with colour perhaps. Another important problem corners of walls, but I don't have any ideas for that now :lol:


I have some more ideas, but this is enough to start a discussion. Please give some ideas, proposals, anything lets do some brainstorming :D

Also if you remember of some previous discussions about this, you can link them here, or just write down important points from there.

Windows and doors
https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Arch_Window ... ow%20types
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=50802

Annotations
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 23&t=46320
Last edited by ABeton on Thu May 13, 2021 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
paullee
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Re: [Architecture discussion] Ideas for a user friendly way to generate 2D drawings for architects

Postby paullee » Wed May 12, 2021 12:23 am

Great account of issues to discuss ! Many issues, maybe you can give each of them a bullet number for ease of discussions - maybe each of them may subsequently become separate discussion :lol:

w. 2D Documentation Workflow

FreeCAD_workflow explained in OSArch Wiki by @bitacovir - an earlier discussion/wiki by @bitacovir for example. Pinging a few for discussion :)
bitacovir wrote: Ping
regis wrote: Ping
x. Window/Door Opening in Wall
ABeton wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:44 pm
  • windows and doors should be able to reckognize any wall they enter and make a hole in it
This should be working, any problems?:)


y. Window/Door/Wall Creation in PartDesign WB / App::Part
ABeton wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:44 pm
  • windows and doors could be primarily created in the Part Design workbench(especialy when the topology fix is fully implemented) and added to the parts library
Arch_Window - Defining Window Type - Window/Door Creation in PD WB is somehow supported as implemented by @yorik.

Inscribing a Shape created in PD WB in a Wall Object is supported, though probably most if not all underlying parameters (length?) seems not supported.


z. Window/Wall 'Assembly' / Intuitive Placement
ABeton wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:44 pm Also walls should be easily movable by moving the underlying line .
[ Comments Request ] Intuitive Automatic Windows/Doors + Equipment Placement - My earlier discussion :)
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bitacovir
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Re: [Architecture discussion] Ideas for a user friendly way to generate 2D drawings for architects

Postby bitacovir » Wed May 12, 2021 2:45 am

I would suggest to change your approach. Rather than this bullet point list of features (some of them are not very clear to me), it may be better to write the outcomes that you are looking for. What do you want to produce with TechDraw workbench (for an architecture purpose). This way the discussion could be about what strategies or workflows can be implemented to reach those results. Then, you can identify what features are needed to complete the task or what need to be optimized for much efficient results.

Also, be aware that right now there isn't a developer in charge or working on TechDraw enhancements (only maintenance tasks done for the community). So, no new code will be added for a wile.
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carlopav
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Re: [Architecture discussion] Ideas for a user friendly way to generate 2D drawings for architects

Postby carlopav » Wed May 12, 2021 5:10 am

There have been many topica already on this. Just to point ti one: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 23&t=46320
follow my experiments on BIM modelling for architecture design
carlopav
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Re: [Architecture discussion] Ideas for a user friendly way to generate 2D drawings for architects

Postby carlopav » Wed May 12, 2021 11:57 am

By the way looks like @yorik Is "Busy implementing .pat-based hatching in FreeCAD, btw. Indeed would be nice to export that to ifc.. i would really like some day to try supporting 2d better too" as he stated yesterday in osarch.org forum
follow my experiments on BIM modelling for architecture design
ABeton
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Re: [Architecture discussion] Ideas for a user friendly way to generate 2D drawings for architects

Postby ABeton » Thu May 13, 2021 9:11 pm

It took me quite some time to go through these discussions and test some things out.
paullee wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:23 am Great account of issues to discuss ! Many issues, maybe you can give each of them a bullet number for ease of discussions - maybe each of them may subsequently become separate discussion :lol:
That is a good idea, I will do that. This can serve as the main page with all the links to other discussions.
paullee wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:23 am w. 2D Documentation Workflow

FreeCAD_workflow explained in OSArch Wiki by @bitacovir - an earlier discussion/wiki by @bitacovir for example. Pinging a few for discussion :)
I will add all the links to the top. This is perhaps the best aproach to doing 2D for architecture in FreeCAD with current tools.
paullee wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:23 am x. Window/Door Opening in Wall
ABeton wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:44 pm
  • windows and doors should be able to reckognize any wall they enter and make a hole in it
This should be working, any problems?:)

y. Window/Door/Wall Creation in PartDesign WB / App::Part
ABeton wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:44 pm
  • windows and doors could be primarily created in the Part Design workbench(especialy when the topology fix is fully implemented) and added to the parts library
Arch_Window - Defining Window Type - Window/Door Creation in PD WB is somehow supported as implemented by @yorik.

Inscribing a Shape created in PD WB in a Wall Object is supported, though probably most if not all underlying parameters (length?) seems not supported.
I did not know this was already suported, awesome :D I knew it was possible to insert Doors for example using the Door tool, but later if I want to move them to another wall I have to do it manually. It would be good to have a "Move door/window tool" which would move, add and align these elements to wall in the same way they are inserted the first time. Also I checked the link you attached. I didnt know a door object can be created from App Part and also with a subvolume. That is great, especialy with good topology later.

Unfortunately I am getting some bugs with the Door and Window tool. When I try to import a window from the part library(using the Window tool) I get this error:

Code: Select all

22:18:56  Traceback (most recent call last):
22:18:56    File "D:\Program Files\FreeCAD 0.19\Mod\Draft\draftguitools\gui_snapper.py", line 1409, in click
22:18:56      accept()
22:18:56    File "D:\Program Files\FreeCAD 0.19\Mod\Draft\draftguitools\gui_snapper.py", line 1425, in accept
22:18:56      callback(self.pt, obj)
22:18:56    File "D:\Program Files\FreeCAD 0.19\Mod\Arch\ArchWindow.py", line 256, in getPoint
22:18:56      FreeCADGui.doCommand("FreeCADGui.ActiveDocument.mergeProject('"+path+"')")
22:18:56    File "<string>", line 1
22:18:56  SyntaxError: (unicode error) 'unicodeescape' codec can't decode bytes in position 2-3: truncated \UXXXXXXXX escape
I am not sure what could cause this. Also I get some errors with linked windows and doors(I checked your precious discussion but not sure if it is implemented yet).
paullee wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:23 am z. Window/Wall 'Assembly' / Intuitive Placement
ABeton wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:44 pm Also walls should be easily movable by moving the underlying line .
[ Comments Request ] Intuitive Automatic Windows/Doors + Equipment Placement - My earlier discussion :)
Yes that I know, I usually use draft wires for walls, and I saw you use sketches. So this creates different workflows. I guess I wanted to say that the lines which are base of the wall should be accented with some fancy colour :lol: when the wall is selected and also editable(so I don't have to look for the line in the tree).

One thing interests me, does recompute time increase a lot with a complex Master Sketch wall with a large number of windows? I was kind of afraid of this so mostly used Draft wires for walls, making a large number of separate walls.
bitacovir wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:45 am I would suggest to change your approach. Rather than this bullet point list of features (some of them are not very clear to me), it may be better to write the outcomes that you are looking for. What do you want to produce with TechDraw workbench (for an architecture purpose). This way the discussion could be about what strategies or workflows can be implemented to reach those results. Then, you can identify what features are needed to complete the task or what need to be optimized for much efficient results.

Also, be aware that right now there isn't a developer in charge or working on TechDraw enhancements (only maintenance tasks done for the community). So, no new code will be added for a wile.
Ok I will try to change that, the first post is meant to be edited so that was just me getting some thoughts out quickly. I will try add more concrete goals during the discussion.

And for Techdraw, I wanted to say maybe it would be better if we could make drawings without it for now. If we had a really large floor of a building with a lot of furniture I do not think Techdraw would be able to handle it with hatching and all. So would it be possible to make documentation(even just jpg) with correct paper size in 3D view directly. I mean would it be difficult to program this?
carlopav wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:10 am There have been many topica already on this. Just to point ti one: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 23&t=46320
I will add this in the first post.
carlopav wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:57 am By the way looks like @yorik Is "Busy implementing .pat-based hatching in FreeCAD, btw. Indeed would be nice to export that to ifc.. i would really like some day to try supporting 2d better too" as he stated yesterday in osarch.org forum
That sounds great, big thanks to Yorik :D