FreeCAD @CERN (split topic)

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Kunda1
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FreeCAD @CERN (split topic)

Postby Kunda1 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:43 am

Note: this topic was split off from https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?t=37308
maybe we should reach out to CERN especially now that they are transitioning to Open Source? I wonder if they would be open to act as a mirror or even provide CI services ?
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Cyril
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Re: FreeCAD @CERN

Postby Cyril » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:49 pm

Kunda1 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:43 am
maybe we should reach out to CERN especially now that they are transitioning to Open Source? I wonder if they would be open to act as a mirror or even provide CI services ?
If you need someone to go there. I can literally walk to the CERN in less than 15 minutes (depending on which building I need to reach :lol:, it is a very large area). I know some HVAC there guys I have already whispered about FreeCAD but HVAC is probably not the first area FreeCAD will be used in :P .

Edit : I saw mistyped the «not» as I really think there is a long way to go for HVAC domain and so much more interesting use in a site like CERN.
Last edited by Cyril on Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Kunda1
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Re: FreeCAD @CERN

Postby Kunda1 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:33 pm

Cyril wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:49 pm
Kunda1 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:43 am
maybe we should reach out to CERN especially now that they are transitioning to Open Source? I wonder if they would be open to act as a mirror or even provide CI services ?
If you need someone to go there. I can literally walk to the CERN in less than 15 minutes (depending on which building I need to reach :lol:, it is a very large area). I know some HVAC there guys I have already whispered about FreeCAD but HVAC is probably the first area FreeCAD wiil be used in :P .
'Boots on the ground' literally :)
That's awesome. Well, maybe think of a way to make a presentation and then present it?
Maybe @joel_graff could let us use some of his materials?... since he has done a few presentations about FC already, @yorik as well.
yorik wrote:
Joel_graff wrote:
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easyw-fc
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Re: FreeCAD @CERN

Postby easyw-fc » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:43 pm

I also would like to consider the tight collaboration between KiCAD and FreeCAD through the Workbench KiCAD StepUp
-
kicad StepUp: ECAD MCAD bidirectional collaboration in action
EDIT:
Moreover before talking to some guys @ KiCAD developer's list, I would like to know @yorik and @wmayer opinion.
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Re: FreeCAD @CERN

Postby keithsloan52 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:54 pm

I am in the process of developing a GDML workbench see https://github.com/KeithSloan/FreeCAD_Python_GDML

My understanding is that CERN and Jefferson in the USA need to run the designs of their machines through Monte Carlo simulations.
The software for this is ROOT and Geant4, which can take as input a GDML file.

There are challenges taking designs in BRep format ( i.e. STEP) files and performing Monte Carlo simulations on them for reasons I don't really understand, after all FEM uses Mesh etc. The problem is that the simulations just take way too long to run.

There have been attempts to convert to Tessellated GDML file and also an application called McCAD that tries to break down BRep objects into CSG type soiids.

My workbench implements GDML solids ( Much richer set than FreeCAD csg) as FreeCAD Python Objects and as a result one can change
the values by editing the properties which are the same as defined by the GDML specification/manual.

Anyway to date my workbench repository has received 4 stars and 2 thumbs up in the Geant4 forum. but none of these people work for CERN.

One of the test files in my repository is lhcbvelo.gdml which I assume came from CERN. I would be very interested to test with others.

I am under the impression that CATIA has some facilities for creating GDML, but as CATIA is very expensive and not open source, I don't know much more about it. SolidWorks may also have similar facilities.
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Re: FreeCAD @CERN

Postby keithsloan52 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:32 pm

Kunda1 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:43 am
maybe we should reach out to CERN especially now that they are transitioning to Open Source? I wonder if they would be open to act as a mirror or even provide CI services ?
I think one of the reasons behind their Open Source effort was Microsoft jacking up the license fee's not sure other vendors have
followed suit to the same extent.
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Re: FreeCAD @CERN

Postby easyw-fc » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:33 pm

keithsloan52 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:32 pm
Kunda1 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:43 am
maybe we should reach out to CERN especially now that they are transitioning to Open Source? I wonder if they would be open to act as a mirror or even provide CI services ?
I think one of the reasons behind their Open Source effort was Microsoft jacking up the license fee's not sure other vendors have
followed suit to the same extent.
Cern moved toward OpenSource with KiCad because they needed a unified platform to develop and share PCBs around their different labs and locations...
Printed Circuit Boards (PCB) are the heart of any electronic device, from toasters to smartphones. But so far, the engineers who design the boards often have had no option but to use proprietary tools. That's about to change: CERN experts are adapting the open-source software KiCad to make it an efficient tool for designing open-source hardware. This free software makes it easier for electronics engineers to share their designs.
Introducing CERN BE-CO-HT
keithsloan52
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Re: FreeCAD @CERN

Postby keithsloan52 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:44 pm

Well the following link you referred me to in the past https://home.cern/news/news/computing/m ... chnologies

Is motivated by the Microsoft increasing their licensing costs and changing CERN's terms,
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easyw-fc
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Re: FreeCAD @CERN

Postby easyw-fc » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:05 pm

keithsloan52 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:44 pm
Well the following link you referred me to in the past https://home.cern/news/news/computing/m ... chnologies

Is motivated by the Microsoft increasing their licensing costs and changing CERN's terms,
That is the reason why CERN is moving away from Ms and getting OpenSource sw to compete with Ms sw.
But the reason for getting OpenSource sw like KiCAD is derived from CERN approach to Open Hardware
https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/collection/ ... omic-actor
Open hardware and knowledge transfer

"The primary reason for CERN to get involved in KiCad has to do with their open hardware licence and knowledge transfer strategy," says lead developer Wayne Stambaugh. "They quickly recognized that they needed an open-source Electronic Design Automation (EDA) toolset to make their open hardware designs truly open for knowledge transfer."

From CERN's KiCad project page: "We think that KiCad can do to PCB design what the GCC compiler did to software: ensure there are no artificial barriers to sharing so that design and development knowledge can flow more freely."

"When people share their Free and Open-Source Software developments, they don't have to ask themselves if somebody will be able to open their files and edit them," says Javier Serrano, leader of CERN's Hardware and Timing section, and initiator of the Open Hardware Repository and the CERN Open Hardware Licence. "Open Source Hardware (OSHW) is lagging way behind in that respect."
Push

In the long term, CERN is expected to add KiCad to the EDA toolsets internally supported for PCB design (currently Altium and Cadence). "CERN is a big and diverse place," says Serrano, "and I can only speak for the BE-CO-HT section. We represent a small portion of the PCB designers inside CERN, but we do have the backing of our hierarchy in all our open hardware activities, of which KiCad is an important part. For example, our OSHW efforts were mentioned by the President of the CERN Council in his introductory message to the CERN annual report in 2011. And the CERN & Society Foundation helps us raise funds to pay for the further development of KiCad."
keithsloan52
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Re: FreeCAD @CERN

Postby keithsloan52 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:25 am

easyw-fc wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:05 pm
keithsloan52 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:44 pm
Well the following link you referred me to in the past https://home.cern/news/news/computing/m ... chnologies

Is motivated by the Microsoft increasing their licensing costs and changing CERN's terms,
That is the reason why CERN is moving away from Ms and getting OpenSource sw to compete with Ms sw.
But the reason for getting OpenSource sw like KiCAD is derived from CERN approach to Open Hardware
https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/collection/ ... omic-actor
Open hardware and knowledge transfer

"The primary reason for CERN to get involved in KiCad has to do with their open hardware licence and knowledge transfer strategy," says lead developer Wayne Stambaugh. "They quickly recognized that they needed an open-source Electronic Design Automation (EDA) toolset to make their open hardware designs truly open for knowledge transfer."

From CERN's KiCad project page: "We think that KiCad can do to PCB design what the GCC compiler did to software: ensure there are no artificial barriers to sharing so that design and development knowledge can flow more freely."

"When people share their Free and Open-Source Software developments, they don't have to ask themselves if somebody will be able to open their files and edit them," says Javier Serrano, leader of CERN's Hardware and Timing section, and initiator of the Open Hardware Repository and the CERN Open Hardware Licence. "Open Source Hardware (OSHW) is lagging way behind in that respect."
Push

In the long term, CERN is expected to add KiCad to the EDA toolsets internally supported for PCB design (currently Altium and Cadence). "CERN is a big and diverse place," says Serrano, "and I can only speak for the BE-CO-HT section. We represent a small portion of the PCB designers inside CERN, but we do have the backing of our hierarchy in all our open hardware activities, of which KiCad is an important part. For example, our OSHW efforts were mentioned by the President of the CERN Council in his introductory message to the CERN annual report in 2011. And the CERN & Society Foundation helps us raise funds to pay for the further development of KiCad."
Yes that all makes sense.

I think the usability of my GDML Workbench https://github.com/KeithSloan/FreeCAD_Python_GDML would take a BIG step forward if I could get it to process a default file when FreeCAD opens a new file. I envisage the default file file defining a load of constants, materials etc, but I am stuck with the implementation
see https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36709.
I think if I could implement this and do a few days work on tiding up export, it should make it more usable. I also want to add the ability to load xml files, i.e. Opening a GDML file sets up a new environment, loading an xml file which contains GDML adds to current environment