Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

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JLB85FR
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Location: Vendée - France

Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby JLB85FR » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:28 pm

Hi all,
I'm new to this forum and to use of Freecad, Wich I think is a very powerful software.
However, I'm a bit disapointed since I have a lot of errors or problems after having used only a small amount of features.
When I try to add a window in a cut made of for instance a wall and an extrude, I get errors on extrudes, and removing the window often does not work.
I have posted a Bug report (2403) with attached files, and I would like to know if others have encountered the same issue.
I'm trying to design the drawing of our present house, as exercice, and then if all is ok, I must design a garage and several additional pieces of building like stables.
For the moment I'm in stand by, I do not want to take the risk of inserting windows or doors in my design and break the design structure.
BTW, is there a way of repairing or editing with a text editor, all the design file ?
thanks in advance...
Jean-Luc
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yorik
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Re: Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby yorik » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:48 pm

I've seen your bug report but was too lazy to unzip the attachment and the problems described are vague... It's hard to know what's wrong, there might be hundreds of reasons...

Normally you can always go back and fix problems. I suggest you go by parts, keep things clean and separated (prefer to do many small walls than one big one), so you can change one of them when needed, while keeping what is good. Try deleting all the parts that have problems, and rebuild them, and go step by step.

If you can describe one specific problem with more precision, you'll get more chances to get help to fix it than if you just say "many things are not working"...
jmaustpc
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Re: Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby jmaustpc » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:49 am

JLB85FR wrote:I have posted a Bug report (2403) with attached files,
Its usually best to discuss matters in the Help forum before deciding its a bug so that the bug tracker does not get overwhelmed with poor quality bug reports or bug reports that require no action.
JLB85FR wrote:I'm new to this forum and to use of Freecad, Wich I think is a very powerful software.
due to its fundamental nature CAD software does have a steep learning curve....I hope you stick around and become more familiar ...but I think starting with more simple items would be good advice ...a full house design is, or can be, complex.

Please always post your Help men about FreeCAD data with your posts in these forums, as so much changes so quickly it is almost always helpful at the time or certainly in the future when people are looking back to an old topic for a resolution of a similar issue.

Arch WB is a rather recent addition, which Yorik has updated a lot, so if you want to use it, you really should be using the very most recent FreeCAD you can get. i.e. compile from master/install from PPA/install a snapshot release all of which are currently 0.16dev versions. 0.16 will likely be a release version very soon now and has developed a long way past 0.15....
JLB85FR wrote:for instance a wall and an extrude,

sounds like you are mixing tools from different workbenches, which is often a good idea, but can be inappropriate and may possibly in this case be the cause of some of your issues.
JLB85FR wrote:For the moment I'm in stand by, I do not want to take the risk of inserting windows or doors in my design and break the design structure.
for any complex model "save as" is your friend....save often ...save files for different versions. When Yorik first started the Arch WB, I designed several houses as a way of helping him debug Arch. At the time there were obviously many more missing features and issues, as Yorik was still at the beginning of writing the work bench. So I used the logic of designing to a "stable point" then "save as" thus creating a new file for something that might have unwanted consequences.
JLB85FR wrote:BTW, is there a way of repairing or editing with a text editor, all the design file ?
The simple answer is "yes, sort of". The fcstd file is a zipped archive, you can use the FreeCAD "project" tool to pull apart a fcstd file and reassemble it...but this is very advance expert or developer territory ....definitely not of any value to a new user.


So in summary, you are welcome here, but please always post your "Help about FreeCAD" data, always discuss "bugs" on the help forum first, and start learning FreeCAD with simple projects first. Also FreeCAD is fantastic and has advanced an incredibly long way over the last few years ....but it is still a "work in progress" as the version number implies, 0.16 is a long way short of version 1. :-)
JLB85FR
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Location: Vendée - France

Re: Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby JLB85FR » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:44 pm

Hi Yorik and Jmaustpc,

thanks a lot for your replies.
I'm sorry for having too quickly reported a bug.... :oops:
In the future I'll follow your advice.
For the moment, I have downloaded the last 32bit dev version, FreeCAD_0.16.6225_x86_dev_bin.7z, it looks like I still have the issue, but I just have tested it on a file created with version 0.15 (after having deleted the window and extrude which generated the errors), I'm going to create a new project from scratch and will let you know after that.

Regarding mixing workbenches, I think I cannot do otherwise (maybe I'm wrong), for instance I have to make a roof with 2 panes with an angle of 16.7°, the others beeing 90°, then I need to fill the space on the vertical panes (90°) with a wall, then I make a substract between a rectangular wall I place under the roof, and an extrude from a facebinder made from the 2 bottom sides of the roof panes. for doing this, I have to use the draw, arch, and part workbenches. Do you mean that I should use the 'Complete' workbenche instead ?

I know that I have a lot of things to learn about Freecad, but this was a very simple design, for more complex I will work on them before posting ....

I appreciate your work and hope it will last for a long long time !
thanks again for having answered to all the questions !
;)
Jean-Luc
jmaustpc
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Re: Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby jmaustpc » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:50 pm

JLB85FR wrote: Do you mean that I should use the 'Complete' workbenche instead ?
No, generally don't use complete...we should I think remove it, it means that the tools within it are completed to a specified high standard including documents. It does not mean that it contains all FreeCAD tools from all workbenches. It made sense in the early FreeCAD days but I think it has lost relevance now days, and only causes confusion.
JLB85FR wrote:Regarding mixing workbenches,
Sometime you need to use many workbenches and sometimes its a good idea and sometime its the intended work flow....it was just a general comment that I think you need to understand the consequences of doing so and in some situations it can get messy. My comment was more in the context of keeping it simple first while you are trying to learn how to use FreeCAD. My opinion is that starting with designing a house is starting with something too complex, and you will likely only end up in a frustrated confused mess, but that is only my opinion. :)
JLB85FR
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Re: Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby JLB85FR » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:36 pm

thanks for these comments...
I try to work on simple forms, but since the idea is to create a garage and one or 2 stables (rectangular building, with simple roof, one window and one door in 2 separate parts), I tried to work on a house already existing, so I have all the dimensions and the final drawing already made on paper...

At this moment, I have downloaded the dev version 0.16.6265, and my question is still: how can I add a window in a wall which already has substracted parts, or added parts ?
I tried a simple project, but the only way I found was to add the window in the wall, which removes the wall from the 'Cut' made of the wall and a circle extrusion.
Maybe it can be done like this, but if we imagine I have already a complex wall with many things added or substracted from the wall, it will not be easy to receate all the substractions or additions...
why isn't it possible to add the window in the wall, but the wall remains as child of the 'Cut' part ?
I have attached a pdf file describing the operations I have performed (extension txt should be removed) to the post.

JL
Attachments
Window in cut.pdf.txt
(229.43 KiB) Downloaded 36 times
JLB85FR
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Location: Vendée - France

Re: Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby JLB85FR » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:21 pm

Here attached a simple sample:
first file: demo_window B.FCStd: a wall substracted of an extruded circle, the strcture is ok.
second one: demo_window B + wall2+window.FCStd: same design, just added a wall and a window in this wall. close the file and reopen it, there is a problem on the 'Cut' object. I think that this is a bug, what do you think of it ?
JL
Attachments
demo_window B.FCStd
(16.5 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
demo_window B + wall2+window.FCStd
(25.92 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
JLB85FR
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:08 pm
Location: Vendée - France

Re: Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby JLB85FR » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:31 pm

Another attachment, more simple, just 2 lines....
Please, help, fix the bug....
Attachments
simple extrude with window.pdf.txt
(79.07 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
JLB85FR
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:08 pm
Location: Vendée - France

Re: Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby JLB85FR » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:35 pm

Hello,
I've tried many releases of version 0.16, but still not working with extrudes.
I think that the problem comes from 'window', just place a window in a design, then add any extruded shape like a circle or a rectangle, and an error is generated. in attached file is the very simple sample.
Isn't it possible to reopen BT 2403 ?
I don't think I do something wrong....
I haven't tried on a 64bit OS...
Regards

OS: Windows XP
Word size of OS: 32-bit
Word size of FreeCAD: 32-bit
Version: 0.16.6344 (Git)
Build type: Release
Branch: master
Hash: 2eb194776b8c69e64840e9f62a7cb66abdb8090a
Python version: 2.7.8
Qt version: 4.8.6
Coin version: 4.0.0a
OCC version: 6.8.0.oce-0.17
Attachments
window+extrude.FCStd
(9.32 KiB) Downloaded 32 times
JLB85FR
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:08 pm
Location: Vendée - France

Re: Adding window breaks other extruded items in cut

Postby JLB85FR » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:23 pm

Hi,
is it possible to reconsider this bug before releasing version 0.16 ? it still doesn't work ... I check at each prerelease version...
or is it possible to reopen bug issue 2403 ?
thanks...