Disable the gimballing?

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sgrogan
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby sgrogan » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:00 pm

NormandC wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:56 pm I've often witnessed over the years that on Windows, OpenInventor mode rather than CAD may be set to default, even if it's not supposed to.
Exactly, and I can not reproduce this. It is always on Win that this happens!
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triplus
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby triplus » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:18 pm

NormandC wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:56 pm I wonder why this discussion is ongoing, obviously buk will not be back.
Mainly to see if there is any consensus to change the default navigation style in FreeCAD 0.18. I guess.
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sgrogan
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby sgrogan » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:25 pm

triplus wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:18 pm Mainly to see if there is any consensus to change the default navigation style in FreeCAD 0.18. I guess.
CAD is fine. The problem is that somehow, on some Win systems, default gets set to Openinventor. The Nav indicator is useful to trouble-shoot. But, try using Openintentor mouse model? shift+ left click? By the time the using gets here they are spitting nails.
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triplus
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby triplus » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:41 pm

sgrogan wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:25 pm CAD is fine.
No it is not.

P.S. Said that. You do have a point. I know i did my part. When trying to improve the new user experience in this area. And therefore will leave it to the next generation. To improve the area further. Trying to reach consensus where arguing CAD is fine. Well that just ain't going to work. Fair point! ;)
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sgrogan
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby sgrogan » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:48 pm

triplus wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:41 pmNo it is not.
Why exactly. I don't "like" or use the "CAD" mouse model, but it works as advertised, and most of the documentation and tutorials assume this.
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triplus
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby triplus » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:23 pm

sgrogan wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:48 pm Why exactly. I don't "like" or use the "CAD" mouse model, but it works as advertised, and most of the documentation and tutorials assume this.
If you don't like it and don't use it. What else it there to say? ;)
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NormandC
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby NormandC » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:31 pm

triplus wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:18 pm Mainly to see if there is any consensus to change the default navigation style in FreeCAD 0.18. I guess.
Fair enough and a valid point.

sgrogan wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:25 pmCAD is fine.
(...) By the time the using gets here they are spitting nails.
In my first ever post here on this forum, I complained about the CAD navigation mode. ;) (Back then there were only 2 modes, CAD and Inventor - Inventor was barely usable to build models, only suitable to viewing them)

I already had experience with 5 different CAD systems, and none required simultaneous use of two mouse buttons.

CAD navigation mode is hard to master, needs pressing either LMB or RMB along with the middle mouse button, which on 99% of the mice available on the market is first and foremost a scroll wheel. For weeks maybe months, my finger would slip on the scroll wheel and I'd inadvertently zoom the view out instead of rotating it. It would do it so fast the model would almost disappear from the screen! It was extremely frustrating. So sgrogan's "spitting nails" imagery hit dead on. :lol: If there had been other modes than Inventor back then, I would not be using CAD mode now.

For once, I agree with triplus :? , choosing a different default navigation mode would enhance usability for newcomers.

I'm just now trying out navigation modes, which I never do since CAD is so ingrained in me now.

I would vote for Gesture. It can be used with a mouse as well as a touchscreen. Using a mouse, you do not need to press a keyboard key like with Blender mode. All movements are done with a single pressed mouse button. LMB lets you rotate the view and select. Scroll wheel up/down to zoom. RMB to pan. Simple, efficient.

But wouldn't the best be to open a configuration wizard when launching FreeCAD for the first time? Something like what LibreCAD has, but extended. It could give you the possibility to set your units, define your mouse model (explanation window required, similar to Navitation Indicator), even TechDraw template size.

LIbreCAD_First_Launch_01.png
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Going further, we could introduce "custom profiles" in the wizard that would automatically filter the workbench list to different selections.
  • Architecture profile would filter the wb selector to only display Arch, Draft, Sketcher, Spreadsheet, TechDraw and possibly a few others (Mesh Design? Part? Raytracing?)
  • Mechanical Design profile would filter the wb selector to only display Sketcher, PartDesign, Spreadsheet, TechDraw, Mesh Design, FEM and possibly Raytracing and Draft
  • General modeling profile would display Draft, Sketcher, Part...
  • Complete profile would display all installed workbenches.
Anyway. I understand it would be hard to get consensus on that.
triplus
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby triplus » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:48 pm

NormandC wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:31 pm For once, I agree with triplus :?
Not that i am counting. But i distinctly remember hearing this one in the past. Therefore i guess we can try to reach consensus and try to improve this area for new users in FreeCAD 0.18 development cycle. Hopefully.

P.S. As for welcoming dialogs with options. I am not all that sure. As the assumption would be new user understands what the dialog is asking. In addition trying to explain something to a new user usually takes an effort and a few different point of views for specific use case. What i am trying to say is to get this right insane amount of effort would likely need to be invested. To get some perspective. Switching default navigation mode for example. It took us years and we are still not there.
GeneFC
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby GeneFC » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:56 pm

Gesture mode is my favorite as well. I am too clumsy to use multi-button modes. :roll:

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bejant
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Re: Disable the gimballing?

Postby bejant » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:46 am

NormandC wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:56 pm I've often witnessed over the years that on Windows, OpenInventor mode rather than CAD may be set to default, even if it's not supposed to.
A right-click on the background of the 3D view brings up the Navigation styles pop-up menu, and OpenInventor mode is at the top of the list. I wonder if users are somehow unknowingly changing the selection from CAD to OpenInventor? It might be interesting to see if we still get reports of OpenInventor mode being selected if instead CAD was moved to the top of the list...
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