[MERGED] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post here for help on using FreeCAD's graphical user interface (GUI).
Forum rules
and Helpful information
IMPORTANT: Please click here and read this first, before asking for help

Also, be nice to others! Read the FreeCAD code of conduct!
abdullah
Veteran
Posts: 4935
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 3:16 pm
Contact:

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by abdullah »

openBrain wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:05 am * 'Copy' function of Sketcher is IMO different from what you can expect in a standard 'Copy-Paste' process, so it doesn't have to use 'Ctrl+C' command. IMO it even should not use this, as it can lead to weird things if your focus isn't in the 3D view. :) Better use a "Z, Something" command.
That one is easy to accommodate. Even the "Z, C, ..." could be change to "Z, P, ..." or other untaken combination so that it is "Z, C".
openBrain wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:05 am * When using digits, we have to pay attention that on a variety of locale keyboards, it actually requires the user to press "Shift+digit key" -- if no numpad -- which isn't very comfortable. User may eventually circumvent this by caps locking when sketching.
"G, 3, ..." is a very good mnemonic to the 3 point creation methods.

For polygons, there is no good alternative that I can think of...
openBrain wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:05 am A last concern about digits is that I'm afraid it can sadly interfere with global shortcuts that change the view orientation (but I didn't test)
Oh! Tested. This works fine. Once it does not start by a number, using numbers is fine.

Current interferences in this example are:
Accelerator conflict between Sketcher_ConstrainVertical (V) and Std_OrthographicCamera (V, O)
Accelerator conflict between Sketcher_ConstrainTangent (T) and Std_TreeDrag (T,D)
Accelerator conflict between Sketcher_ConstrainSymmetric (S) and Std_LinkSelectLinked (S, G)
Accelerator conflict between Sketcher_Copy (CTRL+C) and Std_Copy (Ctrl+C)
Basically Sketcher single keys take precedence over the general shortcuts. If the "ctrl+c" is changed to "Z, C", we would get rid of the last one.

I have also not used "W" and "W, ..." not to interfere to workbench navigation.
abdullah
Veteran
Posts: 4935
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 3:16 pm
Contact:

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by abdullah »

If anybody wants to test the ergonomics and can compile, here is the branch.
chrisb
Veteran
Posts: 53785
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by chrisb »

I agree with openBrain, especially that it looks very good. Special thanks from me for the one key stroke. I like the O for diameter, perhaps the only multilingual shortcut, it may even work with chinese language settings :) .

As for the polygons: Perhaps it is useful to have a key resembling the icon click of the current icon, i.e. re-execute the last polygon. G6 comes to mind, because the hexagon seems to be the most frequently used one. That's probably also why it is the default.
GPP is another possibility which can be typed nearly as fast as a two key command.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
User avatar
M4x
Veteran
Posts: 1449
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by M4x »

First of all, thank you very much!

I've to admit that I was surprised to see that horizontal distance and vertical distance didn't end up in the "single stroke area". I've auto constraints enabled and use the polyline tool a lot. This way the majority of the lines I've to constrain vertically or horizontally are getting this constrains "automatically".

My top 6 constraints, which I've to apply manually, are:
  1. horizontal distance
  2. vertical distance
  3. radius
  4. symmetry
  5. equal
  6. tangent
After I've written this, I realized that you probably count "any constraint where you've to type a number" as a non-geometric one :oops: :roll: (would dimensional constraint be correct?)

Nevertheless, I'd like to propose to exchange the shortcuts for horizontally with horizontal distance and vertically with vertical distance. I think the frequency of how these constraints are getting used justifies this.

The educational aspect would still be present regarding vertical and horizontal distance over distance constraint and using the polyline tool :P
abdullah
Veteran
Posts: 4935
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 3:16 pm
Contact:

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by abdullah »

chrisb wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:03 pm I agree with openBrain, especially that it looks very good. Special thanks from me for the one key stroke. I like the O for diameter, perhaps the only multilingual shortcut, it may even work with chinese language settings :) .
Thanks to you for suggesting. As you see my blind first proposal was not it. This is why it is important for me to have feedback.
chrisb wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:03 pm As for the polygons: Perhaps it is useful to have a key resembling the icon click of the current icon, i.e. re-execute the last polygon. G6 comes to mind, because the hexagon seems to be the most frequently used one. That's probably also why it is the default.
GPP is another possibility which can be typed nearly as fast as a two key command.
That one is easy to accommodate too.

I think "G, 6" may be misleading if it is used for the "Comp" button and this was previously used for a triangle. One sees a triangle, yet presses "G, 6".

"G, P, P" looks good to me.

To keep track of the current change requests:
1. Copy => "Z, C" (OpenBrain) , implying:

"Z, P, R" => redundant
"Z, P, M" => malformed
"Z, P, P" => partially redundant
"Z, C, C" => conflicting

2. Assign a shortcut to the "Currently selected polygon" => "G, P, P" (Chrisb)

EDIT: These two proposals have been incorporated to the branch.
abdullah
Veteran
Posts: 4935
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 3:16 pm
Contact:

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by abdullah »

M4x wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:40 pm After I've written this, I realized that you probably count "any constraint where you've to type a number" as a non-geometric one :oops: :roll: (would dimensional constraint be correct?)
What I have learned from others is that "Datum" or "Dimensional constraint" are the ones requiring a value to be assigned. The others are called "Geometric".
M4x wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:40 pm I've to admit that I was surprised to see that horizontal distance and vertical distance didn't end up in the "single stroke area". I've auto constraints enabled and use the polyline tool a lot. This way the majority of the lines I've to constrain vertically or horizontally are getting this constrains "automatically".
I understand. You would like to have some datums as single strokes because of their usage frequency (list from your post).

If not possible, at least you would appreciate single stroke shortcuts for horizontal and vertical distances. Preferably, the ones currently assigned to the geometric horizontal and vertical.

Part of your request is easier to accommodate without other changes:
- One "Radius" (maybe OpenBrain's "smart radius", or just the regular one), could be made into single stroke as "R", as this one is not yet taken. Which one needs to be decided.

The other part, with vertical and horizontal distances results in a conflict, so we need to see how we solve it.

No matter what we decide, we will end up, either with the geometric horizontal/vertical or the datum horizontal/vertical, needing a shortcut different from "H" an "V".

One could think of "SHIFT+H" and "SHIFT+V". However, I doubt that is more ergonomic than "K, H" and "K, V". One needs two hands for the SHIFT modifier. One could think of different spare single strokes, "Y", "U", "I", "A", "D", "F", "J", "L", "X". However, I do not see a match there for a good mnemonic...

I am open to any idea here, anyone?

EDIT: Maybe not two hands for the SHIFT modifier, but two simultaneous strokes with two different fingers.
Last edited by abdullah on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Clarify it.
chrisb
Veteran
Posts: 53785
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by chrisb »

I am a big fan of Polyline. And if lines are rectangular it is near to perfect and does most geometric constraints all by itself. However, as soon as the arc continuation is used, the next line usually is no longer horizontal or vertical but looks rather like this (started at the left lower end):
SnipScreenshot-808338.png
SnipScreenshot-808338.png (2.67 KiB) Viewed 2262 times
You see that the upper line is not horizontal. I show this to demonstrate that the constraints needed depends not only on personal preferences, but also on what is modeled.

At the cost of presumed maximum convenience, I would go for a clear concept (which is convenient itself, because things can be easier remembered). Thus I would not use the R key as a single stroke key if all other dimensions use a prefix. It can well have the R as an additional key though.
From the other discussions I see a preference for single stroke keys for the geometric constraints. If we see here more votes for dimensions - or even geometric elements - using single key strokes, then I can accept it of course, seeing that I am the exotic, and not the others.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
User avatar
M4x
Veteran
Posts: 1449
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by M4x »

abdullah wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:17 pm - One "Radius" (maybe OpenBrain's "smart radius", or just the regular one), could be made into single stroke as "R", as this one is not yet taken. Which one needs to be decided.
I like that. I haven't used the "smart radius" yet but this could be a practical way.
abdullah wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:17 pm No matter what we decide, we will end up, either with the geometric horizontal/vertical or the datum horizontal/vertical, needing a shortcut different from "H" an "V".

One could think of "SHIFT+H" and "SHIFT+V". However, I doubt that is more ergonomic than "K, H" and "K, V". One needs two hands for the SHIFT modifier. One could think of different spare single strokes, "Y", "U", "I", "A", "D", "F", "J", "L", "X". However, I do not see a match there for a good mnemonic...
If I recall correctly, the SHIFT-key wasn't / isn't very popular as a modifier key. For vertical, I could imagine "I" (from the look of it). Horizontal could go with "L".
chrisb wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:14 pm [...] However, as soon as the arc continuation is used, the next line usually is no longer horizontal or vertical but looks rather like this (started at the left lower end):
SnipScreenshot-808338.png
You see that the upper line is not horizontal. I show this to demonstrate that the constraints needed depends not only on personal preferences, but also on what is modeled.
You're right, it depends on what is modeled. Since I'm a fan of putting chamfers directly into sketches, I like using the M-key and placing arcs this way too. By using the CTRL-key, you'll easily get a line which looks like this:
Snip macro screenshot-512683.png
Snip macro screenshot-512683.png (4.48 KiB) Viewed 2248 times
I'd prefer a horizontal constrain over a 90 degree angle constrain. But this might be something for a feature request (applying a horizontal or vertical constrain if those would lead to the same result as a 90 degree angle constrain [like shown in my example]). But even with todays 90 degree angle constrain, there's no need for a manually applied horizontal constrain. The line is already horizontal.
chrisb wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:14 pm At the cost of presumed maximum convenience, I would go for a clear concept (which is convenient itself, because things can be easier remembered).
I totally understand. But like I've said before, I think the frequency of how certain constraints are getting used justifies these "special cases". Shortcuts have to be short and easily to remember to actually be useful and used. I'd say there's something in it from both aspects. It's a personal preference in the end I guess.

edit: In case someone is wondering, the details regarding the Polyline tool (M-key / CTRL-key or CMD for Mac users) are described here: Sketcher_CreatePolyline

edit2: forgot the half of my reply - sorry :roll:
chrisb
Veteran
Posts: 53785
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by chrisb »

I understand that you want maximum speed/convenience, that's what shortcuts are made for. Thus I would go for a clear concept as the default, and modify to meet personal preferences by configuring individual shortcuts for the most frequently used.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
leoheck
Veteran
Posts: 1222
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:56 pm
Location: Coffee shop

Re: [IN DEVELOPMENT] Some shortcuts should be verified

Post by leoheck »

abdullah, I am seeing great work here, thank you for being the brave man.

I was reading comments here, and I came to the realization that it is important to prioritize the most used constraints whenever possible. Are you taking this to create the combinations?

I think it would be easy to export a log file, that saves all the constraints used when using Freecad. So, at the end of the day would be possible to check the frequency of the constraints being used.

Then after you finish the first draft version of the shortcuts list, you could review it trying to improve the constraints making it easier to type for let's say the 10 most used constraints. For instance, today we have this Shift+O for fixing a point onto an object, and this is not a good constraint since it requires 2 hands. Of course, we can use the Right-Shift but I feel it is even harder using the other shift since we are (I am) not use to it.
Post Reply