Ticket #4313 - Increase backup file default (was: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?)

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freedman
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Ticket #4313 - Increase backup file default (was: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?)

Post by freedman »

I'm trying to get some consensus on the default number of files to use in Preferences-Document-Maximum number of backup files to keep.
Now it's set to 1.

It's kind of arbitrary so I pick 20. I know in 0.16 and 0.17 it used to be set to 20. It was changed to a 1 sometime in the late 0.18 development, not sure when. With restarting FreeCAD during a problem I don't think this should be set below 10.

This is for a feature request.
Last edited by Kunda1 on Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added ticket number to thread title
chrisb
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Re: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?

Post by chrisb »

It was 1 in 0.17. I just tried with a plain vanilla installation.
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freedman
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Re: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?

Post by freedman »

Maybe I am mistaken and it was a carry over in the config files. I always verified a number of at least 20 when I set up the config files. That's too bad, a backup of 1 is shameful when it is such a trivial matter for the default. I hope no one lost data.

I know personally I used at least 5 prior backup versions when I had a model problem.

Throw out a number, roll some dice and multiply times 3. :)

I have to presume that all FreeCAD does is file (name) check and save to a new name so the real limit is our gigaByte harddrives.
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Re: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?

Post by TheMarkster »

I'm okay with the default of 1. I think I have it set to 2.

On a related matter I was thinking it would be nice to be able to open the backup files without having to rename them. To that end if the backup name convention was something like filename.Backup001.FCStd you could easily open them. Problem with that is you can also accidentally open the wrong file.
freedman
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Re: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?

Post by freedman »

I just feel like some developer spent hours writing and testing code, being diligent so we don't loose data. They surely worked hard to test multiple backups and then we set the value to 1.

Maybe a different approach, does anyone have a problem with this defaulting to 10?
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Re: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?

Post by chrisb »

I vote for 9. It is big enough to give some security and small enough so that backup files can be found by a very easy pattern.
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Re: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?

Post by MSOlsen65 »

Personally. I have always gone with 3 for mundane, 5 for working items and 9 for super important items or where heeping a historical record was advised or required. Based on those criteria, my FC is set to 5. Pragmatically speaking, I find anything beyound 10 is overkill.

P.S. IMO, the date & timestamp naming of backups is rather meaningless if all backups go to your working folder.
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freedman
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Re: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?

Post by freedman »

P.S. IMO, the date & timestamp naming of backups is rather meaningless if all backups go to your working folder.
All the backups are numbered so you can see the history of your work. I was into a design about 2 months worth and the power went out, had to recover on restarting the program and then something in the early model broke and gave me a big topo error. I had the backups and scraped a few hours work. I was sweating bullets, thought I might loose the whole day.
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Re: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?

Post by chrisb »

You should not rely on the numbers, they are used in a cyclic way. You always have to order them by modification time to find the most recent ones. My procedure if something went wrong is as follows. I didn't have to apply it since the early 0.19 days when frequent crashes were fixed.

1. Save the original file and all backup files too for further inspection,
2. list backup files by modification date
3. move latest to current FreeCAD file
4. check if the now current version is ok
5. if not ok, return to 2. Note that in step 3. now a different file is the latest.

6. if there are no more files left and you still couldn't find a working version you can decide which file from the backups you want to use for repair.
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Re: Preferences- Number of backup files to save?

Post by catman »

freedman wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:11 pm It's kind of arbitrary so I pick 20. I know in 0.16 and 0.17 it used to be set to 20. It was changed to a 1 sometime in the late 0.18 development, not sure when. With restarting FreeCAD during a problem I don't think this should be set below 10.
This is for a feature request.
just my 2cents

Please be aware that any value multiplies your filesize of the project. When I look at a project of say 10MB, "20" would make it 200MB. An 10MB is not a really very large project.
As a new user I would like to thrust that the default number is the minium safe number. If the experts say 1 is not safe enough lets make it higher but please as little as possible.

This might sound a bit silly and right now and probably currently it is, indeed.
But I think some of the issues below become relevant when assembly is being used more widely (e.g. from FC 0.20). I see on my own projects that file numbers tend to explode. Also I am using folder structures to manage subparts.

* file trees on disk get cluttered. You need to scroll a lot to find your files that would be one click away otherwise. This is not trivial to solve: Its not possible to store all backups elsewhere, e.g. in subfolders without creating other problems. In Linux one could hide them (like ".xxx.fcstd1"), but not in Windows. In some Linux (i,e, nemo FM) you can not sort by ending FCSTD and FCSTD1 (you want to get your names sorted properly anyway). Maybe to change the backup file name in a user defined way could help (has been dicsussed), but is not implemented.

* there is no function to "clean" a project with 1 click of any backups. If you use a version managemant to store your project, there is a risk to include backup by accident growing your repository and backups unceessarily.

* if people upload projects with subfolders some might not clean up backup files manually. This forum would see zips with more backup data than projeckt data.
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