FreeCAD does not satisfy you, go your way.

[jpg87]

I accept less and less all these general and too easy criticisms of FreeCAD (among others!).
There are those who absolutely want to find in FreeCAD their practices in other software, and those who want an effortless result.

Criticism has become too developed a practice for my liking.
First of all, allowing yourself to criticize community work is only acceptable if you have one day devoted a little of your time to a common project.
Moreover, "criticizing" should only be a suggestion, the expression of a point of view supported by arguments, all with a certain humility.

Regarding "learn FreeCAD":
It seems that FreeCad is free and open source software, a lot of new users think that it is enough to snap their fingers to get results.

To all I would like to say that like any CAD software, FreeCAD requires above all to acquire a certain knowledge of the tools that it makes available to the user.
Using these tools cannot be done without effort and experimentation.
Each CAD software tool must respect a certain syntax, and this cannot be invented but learned.

Many users who ask for help on the forum haven't looked at the wiki for how to use the tool they are having difficulty with.

Of course, any CAD software imposes geometric prerequisites, but above all it requires skills in work organization.

By browsing the requests for help on the forum, we very often notice a lack of rigor and anticipation.

Suddenly, I get angry, but it had to be said one day!
CAD is magic, but it doesn't come without effort.

jpg87, with all my respect.

[papyblaise]

no, no of course , you are making black blood for nothing, you know very well that today everything is of a clik: ordering a pizza, folding a thesis, saying bad things about your neighbor, so why not use Freecad .....
I'm kidding of course, I share your point of view

[duckmug]

With all the respect, I am not sure what you are actually suggesting here.

FreeCAD is a very mature tool that supports a wide range of paradigms (boundary, constructive, scripting etc)

Users should be completely welcome to experiment and search for the exact approach that works for them.

The extensible nature of FreeCAD makes it a great candidate for even coming up with new paradigms. (don't believe me?, see how cadquery popped up)

I think a forum like this is a fantastic resource for people to get engaged in figuring out how to utilize FreeCAD and unleash its potential.

More questions translate to more search engine results for other newcomers searching for answers (unless it's really an indication of absolutely zero effort to search for it before)

About people complaining about FreeCAD, it's one thing to disrespect developers and their efforts in a specific way and another to simply state what they don't like or doesn't work for them, which they should also be welcome to do.

[Bance]

About people complaining about FreeCAD, it's one thing to disrespect developers and their efforts in a specific way and another to simply state what they don't like or doesn't work for them, which they should also be welcome to do.

Yes if they have made some effort to see how/what works. The question here is how much effort is reasonable?

There have been some users that really struggled to get started with FC but their persistence paid off for them. For others if FC doesn't just automatically produce a fully dimensioned solid, it's rubbish. The most common complaints are why doesn't FC work like XYZ (world dominating/leading market share) software.

[chrisb]

...

This should become a must read, or better "handwrite this text twice" before approving the forum access.

[chrisb]

Yes if they have made some effort to see how/what works.

That's exactly my point. And it has definitely to be more than zero!

[duckmug]

I think the points of insufficient effort and disrespect are something to definitely agree with but I strongly disagree that people should be filtering themselves super hard before trying to associate with others about an open project, which by definition is shaped by all of the participators. Unless you are referring to specific behaviors that I am not really aware of. Just my two cents.

[drmacro]

... Just my two cents.

I think you miss what the OP is really meaning.

There is no suggestion that a new user should restrain themselves from engaging the community, but, that there is typically some percentage (seemingly higher numbers lately) of those new users who expect, or even demand, that it work like the tool they've used before because they simply won't put the effort into learning a different paradigm.

[heda]

deep breath and relax jpg87,
summer is here and why not arrange some good food and wine, simple things to take your mind off fc

you alone cannot stop how others learn and their state of mind,
and you cannot let it get to you.
after all, comparing the fc-forum with overall social media,
one would rather say that the fc-forum is a shining oasis,
largely spared from unsolicited spew of opinion sharing that has no other purpose than to get reactions for reactions sake (trolling etc).

sure, people are entitled to and should express their opinions on what works or not - that is one side of the coin.
the other side of the coin is the likely personalities behind the marvel that fc is.
it is likely personalities that are quality conscious, meaning that if they have gone around thinking for years to fix something and for the 50th time a new user is pointing out what is obvious, well it is not hard to imagine one of 4 reactions out of this...
a) I'm fed up with all this, I will stop to contribute and do something else with my spare time
b) I will simply not read anything on the forum
c) I will bite back, and then the opinion war is flaming (but no code is written)
d) I will just feel guilty about it, meaning that I will become less productive in writing code,
and instead of actually doing it - I will do something else that is less guilt-prone...

all of these reactions are contra-productive to the original intent of the person sharing their opinion in the first place...
but I think it is a bit too much to ask that people actually realize this,
but it is probably quite close to how things actually play out...

what posters really should ask themselves is, what do I think is a way to bring something up that gives energy to the community or the persons that possibly is going to code/make changes in the direction that I am about to propose?
Thus making it more likely that you get a positive reaction in your favour.
one easy example of a positive twist could be: "I read xyz on wiki, but did not find the answer"
as opposed to: "I cannot, or is it possible to..." (without any reference to self-study/experiment, which I suppose is really what tripped jpg87 this time).
(I know it is hard, since bringing up negative sides is at least seemingly what most people tend to do naturally)


I do not think we can easily change peoples personalities, what can be influenced is the dynamics of human interaction, but also that is not easy to do in positive ways - it is what is is at any given moment, and if possible to improve for the future - that is what can be worked on.

any ways, maybe it is time to create an own category in the forum for questions that are clear "just started the program and don't know what to do" questions.
it should not be possible to post in that forum, moderators would have to take on the task to move questions there when judged to be in that category, it would simply be a means to roughly filter out those questions.

I have had some thoughts in the direction of that a "user faq" on the wiki could be useful,
the one that is there now does not feel very much useful for new comers,
maybe split into faq on different topics, like install, use, others (or something).

there is the saying "RTM", but there are people that just will not do that, or even if they do, they will miss some important instruction or detail - I see that as part of reality. Not everyone interprets Shakespeare the same and not all think he is a great writer. The world does not go under over that, but it can make life a bit more interesting...

at last, the thing I really hope is that new users simply are "paying it forward", easing up on the burden for some "old timers" to care for too much of the onboarding of new users, which in all honesty really is a net positive.

[duckmug]

... Just my two cents.

I think you miss what the OP is really meaning.

There is no suggestion that a new user should restrain themselves from engaging the community, but, that there is typically some percentage (seemingly higher numbers lately) of those new users who expect, or even demand, that it work like the tool they've used before because they simply won't put the effort into learning a different paradigm.

Oh I see, in that case I agree that it makes no sense to buy a Honda car and complain that it doesn't work identically the same with a Toyota, if that's the kind of thing we are talking about.