Link Group Usage in Arch/BIM

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dimitar
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Link Group Usage in Arch/BIM

Post by dimitar »

Not sure if this is a bug or by design, but when there is a link group, when clicking on it, the sub objects get selected instead of the parent link group. This makes it rather difficult to select elements and transform them in the viewport. The link group can only be selected in the tree, and only after selecting it in the tree can it be moved, rotated, etc. If I make a sub object unselectable, then I cannot select it in the viewport, which seems that the link group does not have its own presence in the view, only in the outliner.

In the use case that I am using it for a moment, I am creating furniture objects, with separate 2d. the 2d and 3d are two groups contained in the group link, eg water closet and 3d lines projection. I am creating a sub-link of the projection, so it works well with controlling 2d/3d aspect for views and drawings, but the lack of selectability of the link group makes it difficult to transform objects.
realthunder wrote: Ping
Last edited by dimitar on Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Bug?] Link Group cannot be selected in viewport

Post by realthunder »

Well, it ambiguous to the software what the user's intention is when selecting in 3D view. If you are using the upstream FreeCAD, just repeatedly click the same face of an object in the 3D view to select higher hierarchical object. If you are using my branch, this is an option that needs to be turn on to work.
Screenshot from 2022-01-24 06-00-07.png
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Re: [Bug?] Link Group cannot be selected in viewport

Post by realthunder »

Forgot to mention, in my branch the 'Hierarchical selection' is disabled by default because there is a dedicated command to select higher hierarchy, Std_SelUp (shortcut U, U). Mouse over to any object and press the shortcut, there will be popup showing all higher hierrarchical objects for selection.
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Re: [Bug?] Link Group cannot be selected in viewport

Post by dimitar »

HI Realthunder!

First off, thanks for the awesome feature! I don't think proper architecture work was possible in regards to managing libraries of doors, windows, etc, prior to having Std_Link
realthunder wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:01 pm Well, it ambiguous to the software what the user's intention is when selecting in 3D view. If you are using the upstream FreeCAD, just repeatedly click the same face of an object in the 3D view to select higher hierarchical object. If you are using my branch, this is an option that needs to be turn on to work.

Screenshot from 2022-01-24 06-00-07.png
I see. I guess it is similar to having a non-linked part or body in freecad. It seems to always select something inside, and only after two extra clicks does it select the parent body.

I do wonder about why it currently always selected child object prior to parent. If there is there is no active body, then I want to move the whole body. If the body is currently active, then it makes sense to select what's inside. This is especially true for a group link. even is something inside of a group link is selected, as it is linked the object can't be transformed.

It feels like it should be the other way, e.g. like in Sketchup groups. One click selects the parent object, double click allows the user to enter inside and select children objects.
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Re: [Bug?] Link Group cannot be selected in viewport

Post by dimitar »

realthunder wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:01 pm Well, it ambiguous to the software what the user's intention is when selecting in 3D view. If you are using the upstream FreeCAD, just repeatedly click the same face of an object in the 3D view to select higher hierarchical object. If you are using my branch, this is an option that needs to be turn on to work.
I would like to reiterate the importance of having top level access at first click, second click children, third click children of children. Working now with links on an architecture project is really difficult, as things are moving all the time, and I always have to either triple click and check in the tree window if the right things are getting selected.

Here is a practical example:

I have a chair as a separate file with two groups - 3d and 2d (linework representation for techdraw views). A group link is created with the two groups selected.

The group link is then linked into the working file, where being able to transform the group, I need to click three times or select the group in the outliner. That's all fine for a single group. However, I am linking in all furniture this way to be able to create sublinks to the 2d and group that independently for techdraw views

Now, let's say I have three chairs as group links in the working file and I want to move them and rotate them. I cannot right click on all three groups and transform them with the gizmo at the same time, so I have to use the draft move and rotate tools. Selecting all three group links in the viewport is impossible with three click + ctrl to select multiple, so I need to select them in outliner. Since the draft transform tools don't keep the selection after the operation, once the objects have been moved, then I need to go again in the outliner, select the three groups and then rotate them.

If initially the groups are selected instead of the children objects, then this whole process becomes much less painful.

Pinging yorik here, as maybe it's as much an arch challenge as group link challenge.
yorik wrote: Ping
Also paullee who is experimenting with links for arch objects
paullee wrote: Ping
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Re: [Bug?] Link Group cannot be selected in viewport

Post by paullee »

I do some tests on the feasibility but it is @Abeton, @F_Rosa etc. who actually work through all the processes in their modelling (learnt a lot in checking their models !). Particulary @Abeton you are making reference to, consider ping him, and share the knowledge and experience :D
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Re: [Bug?] Link Group cannot be selected in viewport

Post by dimitar »

ABeton wrote: ping
F_Rosa wrote: ping
@Abeton, @F_Rosa, curious to hear your feedback on group click behaviour especially with links. I am using the process that @Abeton documented nicely here (thank you again!) for the group links: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 10#p496267

Maybe this discussion should get moved to the Draft, Arch & Bim section? At the same time, group click behaviour is universal, unless there is an option maybe to have either the current click behaviour, or more arch-style, where a single click selects the top-most parent, and then every other click the subsequent element.
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Re: [Bug?] Link Group cannot be selected in viewport

Post by yorik »

I'm not really sure what to bring to the discussion right now, but indeed when working with Arch/BIM models, 99% of the time you need to select whole objects, not subcomponents. This is *usually* not a problem, but for some commands which act differently if a whole object is selected or a part of it, it is.

Maybe what we need is an alternative mouse model which would only select whole objects? (And for ex. subobjects only when a mod key is pressed)
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Re: [Bug?] Link Group cannot be selected in viewport

Post by dimitar »

yorik wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:38 am Maybe what we need is an alternative mouse model which would only select whole objects? (And for ex. subobjects only when a mod key is pressed)
That would be super useful!
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Re: [Bug?] Link Group cannot be selected in viewport

Post by realthunder »

What if there are multiple hierarchies? How would user indicate which group to select. Not sure about Arch, but for assemblies, the user rarely wants to select the top hierarchy. In my assembly3 workbench, I use the 'Active assembly' (similar to active part/body) to let user indicate the intention of commands like move. Have you tried the 'U, U' hierarchy selecion menu in my branch? Will that fit your need?
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