Possible New FreeCAD Logo

[sliptonic]

I gotta ask. What's the deal with the logo? Is it a prestige thing?

The logo is the first thing you see, you can actually tell a lot about software from its logo. It's like a book cover.
People are visual beings. We fall in love with our eyes first.

The current logo worked fine for Windows 3.1, but it has no place among modern UI and modern systems. There are so many things wrong with it, that any person feels like they can improve it. And most of them are right.

I understand what a logo is and why it's important. But it's not the only important thing and I would venture to say it's far from the most important thing. You didn't answer my question why talented designers seem unwilling to work on anything else.

[Petrikas]

I understand what a logo is and why it's important. But it's not the only important thing and I would venture to say it's far from the most important thing. You didn't answer my question why talented designers seem unwilling to work on anything else.

Nobody said that it's the ONLY important thing. Taking one step a time is a good idea. And top priority right now, design-wise, should be the main icon / logo of the program, not some icons in some workbench that a fraction of users use.

The main logo / icon has a lot of representative value.

You didn't answer my question why talented designers seem unwilling to work on anything else.

That's slightly offensive, but I'll take the bait. Maybe they're unwilling because no one seems to care implementing or considering their input?
This is an open source project. If you want change, be the change. Make suggestions, ask people to implement, make hype, put a bounty on something you require. And since it's an open source project, "talented designers" aren't getting paid, so they're free to work on whatever they find interesting, not what is necessary for others.

If a person is interested in making an icon, let them make an icon and thank the person for their free, unpaid work, and hope that someone comes along that will take care of the problem you have, if you're not willing to do it yourself.

[sliptonic]

I understand what a logo is and why it's important. But it's not the only important thing and I would venture to say it's far from the most important thing. You didn't answer my question why talented designers seem unwilling to work on anything else.

And top priority right now, design-wise, should be the main icon / logo of the program, not some icons in some workbench that a fraction of users use.

On that, we couldn't disagree more. Having a fantastic logo on bad software does nothing to improve it. On the other hand, a poor logo on great software will be easily forgiven.

I'm not just talking about Path. I'm talking about across the board. We get lots of unsolicited submissions for logos but very few contributions in any other area. We do get some, just not very many.

I believe that this is because designing icons for tools requires a deep understanding of the tool. You have to dig in and understand it and the design has to work with everything else. Designers have to talk to developers and users and it takes real work and iteration. Logos, on the other hand, are comparatively easy. Not easy to draw but easy to understand. They are largely aesthetic and not as integrated as tool icons.

When agryson reworked the icons a couple years ago, it was a months long process. There was tons discussion, interaction, and iteration. If he, at the end of that process, wanted to suggest a new logo for FreeCAD, I'd have been all ears. He built trust, demonstrated commitment, and proved competence. His opinion mattered because he put the hard work into it.

You didn't answer my question why talented designers seem unwilling to work on anything else.

That's slightly offensive, but I'll take the bait. Maybe they're unwilling because no one seems to care implementing or considering their input?
This is an open source project. If you want change, be the change. Make suggestions, ask people to implement, make hype, put a bounty on something you require. And since it's an open source project, "talented designers" aren't getting paid, so they're free to work on whatever they find interesting, not what is necessary for others.

If a person is interested in making an icon, let them make an icon and thank the person for their free, unpaid work, and hope that someone comes along that will take care of the problem you have, if you're not willing to do it yourself.

There's nothing offensive in my question. Not even slightly. It's an observation borne out by evidence. I'm really not trying to be critical. I'm trying to understand why so many people with skills I desperately wish I had don't contribute in areas where their talents are needed. I'm trying to find ways to change that.

And you don't need to lecture me about how open-source works. I've been around here for a while.

[ragohix769]

...

Tell me about "unsolicited submissions" ?

"Unsolicited" by whom exactly ??

A free contribution, it's a free contribution. If anybody want to redraw a logo, for free, I don't see any problem with that, really.
If you are saying that there should be a better method to manage and address any contribution or help, I totally subscribe this (Cathedral vs Bazaar), but it's not related, IMHO, with a guy that submit a logo proposal as, maybe, a simple personal excercise or user showcase. Just my two cents.

[Petrikas]

And you don't need to lecture me about how open-source works. I've been around here for a while.

You asked a question, then asked me to answer the question again. I tried to answer as best as I could and you called that lecturing. Great.

On that, we couldn't disagree more. Having a fantastic logo on bad software does nothing to improve it. On the other hand, a poor logo on great software will be easily forgiven.

It's not what you or I think is important. Is what we all think is important, collectively. And the fact that you are always getting new logo suggestions or UI improvements should tell you a think or two about what should be the priority.

The icon is also visible outside of using FreeCAD. It's on my taskbar, it's in my screenshots, it's everywhere. It's probably the most prominent thing about FreeCAD. And almost everybody agrees that it needs refreshing.

There's nothing offensive in my question. Not even slightly. It's an observation borne out by evidence. I'm really not trying to be critical. I'm trying to understand why so many people with skills I desperately wish I had don't contribute in areas where their talents are needed.

I don't understand how this is even a question. Why do people choose to do things that benefit them (in the form of mental satisfaction or otherwise) and not things they are not interested in, on their free time?...

All you have to do is be friendly, promote FreeCAD, and hope that someone comes along with enough passion for Path workbench and enough merit in design to create icons for it. You can't force people to do what they're not interested in, especially not by attacking them on the forum.

I've been around here for a while.

Moot point.

[ragohix769]

It's not what you or I think is important. Is what we all think is important, collectively. And the fact that you are always getting new logo suggestions or UI improvements should tell you a think or two about what should be the priority.

Here too, I agree, exactly. Maybe it's not a priority, ok, but if the perception of the (majority) people is that it's needed an help in logo or UI improvements, maybe this should be a warning.

[chrisb]

I'd like also to imagine a change in the name from FreeCAD to => FCAD (of course it's only my opinion and suggestion!)

Because, IMHO, in work and professional world the word "free" into the name of product or service, it's not so good to have: it's perceived (and of course it's completely wrong!) like a not good option to use because it's free.

If people don't appreciate - leave alone support - the FreeDOM which FreeCAD provides, why should we be interested that they use it?

[adrianinsaval]

I gotta ask. What's the deal with the logo? Is it a prestige thing?
I don't mean to be critical and I encourage people to contribute in any way they wish. I'm just very curious why it's ALWAYS the friggin logo!

Below is the main setup panel for the job in the Path workbench. It's ugly with many buttons that are missing icons entirely. But in all the years I've been working on Path I've never gotten a single unsolicited icon contribution. We get logo submissions every 2 or 3 months. Dozens of them.

It's the easiest to tackle, it's usually newcomers too so it's unrealistic to expect them to start off with things deep down the GUI. Some probably get discouraged because nothing happens with their logo proposal, others simply don't have the commitment to work on other stuff. On the other hand if they are going to work on icons for the rest of the GUI they need to follow FreeCAD's current Artwork_Guidelines which most of them probably don't like to begin with (the current logo follows this guideline). Maybe those who don't like the current guidelines could contribute to this effort? https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=46633

[sliptonic]

...

Tell me about "unsolicited submissions" ?

"Unsolicited" by whom exactly ??

A free contribution, it's a free contribution. If anybody want to redraw a logo, for free, I don't see any problem with that, really.
If you are saying that there should be a better method to manage and address any contribution or help, I totally subscribe this (Cathedral vs Bazaar), but it's not related, IMHO, with a guy that submit a logo proposal as, maybe, a simple personal excercise or user showcase. Just my two cents.

Unsolicited submissions are drive-by people saying, "You didn't ask for a new logo but here you go."
That's cool and I enjoy seeing what creative people come up with.

Unfortunately logos are all I ever see. It would be awesome if someone drove by, for example, and said, "You didn't ask but here are some icons that make the Path setup page easier to understand and more beautiful"

Solicited submissions are the opposite. I've gone out and asked people to design icons because I have a specific need and it's kind of a priority.

[ragohix769]

I'd like also to imagine a change in the name from FreeCAD to => FCAD (of course it's only my opinion and suggestion!)

Because, IMHO, in work and professional world the word "free" into the name of product or service, it's not so good to have: it's perceived (and of course it's completely wrong!) like a not good option to use because it's free.

If people don't appreciate - leave alone support - the FreeDOM which FreeCAD provides, why should we be interested that they use it?

That's a good question, and partially I agree with you. But if you see other successful (big) OSS projects, nobody has a "free" word in it.

Maybe "Open", but not "free". Blender, Ardour, OpenOffice, Linux, Apache, etc etc...

The only exception it's "Libre" with librecad, libreoffice, etc etc, but because "free" in english mean a lot more then other languages (this is why "Free"Software, IE in Italian, it's translated with "SoftwareLibero", not "SoftwareGRATIS").