My take on the FreeCAD GUI

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Aleks
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by Aleks »

Please dont post any Fusion 360 screenshots, as I dont want to get influenced by them. Would it be possible that you remove it? You can describe the differences. Please dont take this the wrong way.
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br4n_d0n
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by br4n_d0n »

Aleks wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:34 pm Please dont post any Fusion 360 screenshots, as I dont want to get influenced by them. Would it be possible that you remove it? You can describe the differences. Please dont take this the wrong way.
This seems strange as you could just skip past the image and not look at it, but I went ahead and deleted the image because the forum doesn't seem to have a bbcode spoiler tag. Hopefully people will understand my post without the image.
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Aleks
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by Aleks »

br4n_d0n wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:29 pm This seems strange as you could just skip past the image and not look at it, but I went ahead and deleted the image because the forum doesn't seem to have a bbcode spoiler tag. Hopefully people will understand my post without the image.
How do i un-look an image without getting drunk or hitting my head with a pan? :D
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adrianinsaval
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by adrianinsaval »

br4n_d0n wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:26 pm I get that, but what's the point of the icons when you have the cube as well?
Well the cube was coded much later than that toolbar and no one changed the toolbar, that's why. I think it's sensible to hide that toolbar by default since it's so rarely used but it shouldn't be entirely removed as the buttons are useful, they don't work exactly the same as the cube faces in master. Maybe if what I mentioned before can be implemented we could offer a collapsed toolbar that show those icons in a dropdown as default but provide the option to show the entire toolbar as it is now so those who find the buttons useful can have them in one click. Or just make it a dropdown by default and power users will just learn the shortcuts and remove the toolbar.
br4n_d0n wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:39 am [*]I sometimes find myself wanting to do something in one workbench that ends up being in another. For example, I find it very confusing that there is a Part workbench along with a Part Design workbench, both of which seem to have similar features and yet have capabilities the other does not. Why not combine these into one?
Yes, this has been discussed many times and I agree it's confusing, it has to do with the slow development, Part Design was meant to be the main method for those things but it still hasn't been developed enough to be on par with Part workbench so it cannot replace it, and it probably shouldn't either way as Part workbench's approach is sometimes useful and preffered by some. Anyway, that issue is rabbit hole on it's own and it's out of scope for this thread.
br4n_d0n wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:39 am [*]At first I was slightly overwhelmed when launching the software and finding a bunch of icons in the toolbar. After hovering over them, a portion seemed like more advanced features such as recording macros or creating links to objects that would most likely not interest me when starting out. It is fine to have these and I know it can be customized, but why present them to a user who is may be using the software for the first time? To me it seems like unnecessary clutter. If later down the road I want them, then I can add them, but I feel being bombarded with all of them from the start is not the way to go.
As you say, at first you are overwhelmed but you quickly see what the buttons do by hovering, if the extended tooltips are implemented it will be even better, but if the commands are not shown by default, how will you learn about them? That's my main concern with the idea of "uncluttering". Parametric 3D modeling is an inherently complex task, to me it seems reasonable to expect the software to be complex and I just don't understand the fear of icons people have.
br4n_d0n wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:39 am [*]This one is subjective and my personal feeling, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm a man of aesthetics and when I look at the default design I feel as though it was created back in the Windows 95 era and hasn't been updated since. To me a find it very ugly compared to the more modern UI designs we have out there.
Is this your opinion of just the default theme on windows or of all the included themes in FreeCAD? Please try one of the other included themes and tell me what you think, what do you think would be your first impression if it was default?. In my opinion FreeCAD should have one of the dark themes as default and corresponding colors for the 3D background and start page, this alone will likely ease the pain of half the people that say they don't like FreeCAD's UI. This is obviously not an objective thing but it is what's trending and considered modern or even "pro" by some.
Thanks for your input br4n_d0n!

Alek's idea of a single tool to wrap profile based operations seems like a good idea to let beginners learn the available tools but not have many buttons displayed. Profile based operation could be the name for that tool now that I think about it.
Of course I would personally prefer to have separate buttons for each command and I think most experienced users would too.

So far the discussion seems to revolve mostly around Part Design, do you guys have ideas on how to unclutter sketcher, draft or FEM for example? just asking it's understandable if those don't get tackled yet.
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Meetlat
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by Meetlat »

Hi Aleks do you see this topic as 'your take' on the UI or are you open for collaboration? For example with https://www.figma.com/ui-design-tool/ ? As I understand with this tool it's possible to share a workspace and work together. Perhaps for a start we (the community of Freecad) can come up with a lot of ideas, big and small. After let's say 3 months (being realistic) we can decide to integrate some of the ideas into one UI Concept (this can also be an UI that can be adapt to different needs/skils, so not necessarily one UI to rule them all). This would perhaps takes 2 months. After that we can ask the developers to help making it a reality.

Sound like a plan?
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Aleks
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by Aleks »

Everyone can add his/ her own ideas. If you have any specific ideas I would like to know about them. You can easily draw up wireframes or workflows in Powerpoint or similar presentation tools and export them as png. You dont even need figma. We will then discuss it here.
But its important that we stay focussed and dont drift away from the goal of this topic, otherwise we are just wasting valuable time and energy.
This UI represents what I envision as a UI for beginners and non-specialized users with the goal to create and manufacture a machine or other physical product.
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by user1234 »

Just saying that i am strictly against of user metrics, also opt in (which would imply false results). It also would be naive, that only counting would give valid results. You also have to interpret results. That is the reason why statistics is an own course of studies. My former employer thought that was easy, got invalid results and not only failed with that, it also make many regressions.

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agryson
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by agryson »

user1234 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:18 pm It also would be naive, that only counting would give valid results. You also have to interpret results.
No one is going to add metrics until there's a general acceptance of it, it's a pity you feel that way despite the opt-in caveat, but that's your call.
I was a UX designer for several years, and still work daily with interpreting user data (and come from a physics background) - interpreting results in a statistically sound way is difficult but not impossible. But the point is somewhat moot since I don't think there's much chance of metrics being accepted by the community.
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Aleks
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by Aleks »

user1234 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:18 pm It also would be naive, that only counting would give valid results. You also have to interpret results.
I think that you are wrong on that one because its very easy in this case. Just seeing what commands and/or other functions get used the most/least would be enough information to make decisions on UI improvements. But I still respect your view.
Last edited by Aleks on Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My take on the FreeCAD GUI

Post by Kunda1 »

Yea, since audacity screwed up royally with telemetry, i doubt we should broach the subject. I proposed telemetry back a few years ago and got a lot of push-back.

The best way is to start simple PartDesign based UI and add complexity as you go, IMHO.
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