Community UI/UX Improvement Project

A forum for research and development of the user interface of FreeCAD
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shamanths13
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Re: YAUIUXDT

Post by shamanths13 »

obelisk79 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:48 am
shamanths13 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:48 am So what if we are inspired by a few elements from other commercial softwares? They have teams of people who base their decisions on studies and collected user data to improve user experience, I am sure.
There is nothing wrong with being inspiried by things you see in other similar software. Good ideas or interface elements aren't relegated to a piece of software where they already exist. When I say:
I certainly am not suggesting that FreeCAD change its modeling paradigms, workbench structure or visually copy some specific piece of software.
My intent is that these ideas/suggestions aren't meant to fundamentally change the way we use and interact with FreeCAD overall it's already solid but it needs refinement. It was programmed with a specific style of work flow and functionality in mind. Often when comments like "When blender overhauled its UI it got a lot better" the responses are "Blender isn't CAD" or "FreeCAD isn't going to become Blender" which I think overlooks the underlying message, which would probably be better phrased "When Blender which is a similarly large FOSS project really took focus on its UI/UX it really improved for everyone, maybe FreeCAD could also take some time to focus on the same."... Similar interactions happen when people reference other software they've used, Fusion360 being a common reference among hobbyists. It doesn't help that some people really do just show up complaining that FreeCAD doesn't work like XYZ other software they already know.
I agree, I too said that Freecad needs a Blender like UI update, and how it shot in popularity and being taken seriously as a software by commercial studios, But I was met with the smooth brained reply of "Blender isnt cad". The people are just reading what they want to read from this suggestion and dismiss it, rather that take the useful part of it. Infact when people here already saying Freecad UI has no problem, and it is perfect the way it is, expecting them to agree about a UI facelift to look more current is like beating a dead horse. A waste of time.
shamanths13
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Re: YAUIUXDT

Post by shamanths13 »

Welcome screen rework(Kinda like the INKSCAPE welcome screen)-
  • Add the Theme selection on the welcome screen.(I have seen users who used freecad for quite some time and had no idea you could change theme to make it look better.
  • Add monitor aspect ratio selection along with a few optimized layouts for the popular aspect ratios(like 16:9, 4:3. 21:9, etc)
  • Add a few ease of accessibility features like text font increase, icon size, colour blindness mode, etc.
  • Add the measurement units selection and the default file storage location.
I posted these welcome screen changes in the other thread and was literally mocked by a veteran user. And you wonder why some users here think the Freecad UI is perfect.
Cheers!
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obelisk79
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Re: YAUIUXDT

Post by obelisk79 »

shamanths13 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:07 am Welcome screen rework(Kinda like the INKSCAPE welcome screen)-
  • Add the Theme selection on the welcome screen.(I have seen users who used freecad for quite some time and had no idea you could change theme to make it look better.
  • Add monitor aspect ratio selection along with a few optimized layouts for the popular aspect ratios(like 16:9, 4:3. 21:9, etc)
  • Add a few ease of accessibility features like text font increase, icon size, colour blindness mode, etc.
  • Add the measurement units selection and the default file storage location.
Ahh back on topic. I like the idea of a welcome screen allowing selection of some basic settings on launch and have suggested as much more than one time in the past. But before we really approach serious discussion on that front, I think we need to take a serious look at what FreeCAD is and isn't currently capable of regarding the UI itself. Which addons, if any, should be considered for integration directly into FreeCAD and then evaluate existing stylesheets to see if they make for a good visual presentation.

I actually am hesitant to try and push a 'classic', 'modern light', 'modern dark' UI selection in a welcome screen. While yes, this is common in software today, the FreeCAD mantra (which I actually consider to be a good thing) can be simply summed up as "Choices". There are a multitude of ways to accomplish the same end result in FreeCAD and I think it is a testament to its power and flexibility. However, FreeCAD 0.20 now has 'Preference Pack' functionality. I think allowing the selection of specific 'Theme' Preference Packs (which meet certain requirements) in the welcome screen would be a potentially better option and require less debate on the forum.
shamanths13
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Re: YAUIUXDT

Post by shamanths13 »

obelisk79 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:22 am Ahh back on topic. I like the idea of a welcome screen allowing selection of some basic settings on launch and have suggested as much more than one time in the past. But before we really approach serious discussion on that front, I think we need to take a serious look at what FreeCAD is and isn't currently capable of regarding the UI itself. Which addons, if any, should be considered for integration directly into FreeCAD and then evaluate existing stylesheets to see if they make for a good visual presentation.

I actually am hesitant to try and push a 'classic', 'modern light', 'modern dark' UI selection in a welcome screen. While yes, this is common in software today, the FreeCAD mantra (which I actually consider to be a good thing) can be simply summed up as "Choices". There are a multitude of ways to accomplish the same end result in FreeCAD and I think it is a testament to its power and flexibility. However, FreeCAD 0.20 now has 'Preference Pack' functionality. I think allowing the selection of specific 'Theme' Preference Packs (which meet certain requirements) in the welcome screen would be a potentially better option and require less debate on the forum.
Well said! I could'nt agree more! What is your opinion about some workaround for treeview getting hidden whenever any task or action is performed? I think its not too good and @OficineRobotica has a excellent solutions about having combo view on the right rather than the left in his FOSDEM 2022 video with realthunder. Infact, the freecad layout in his videos look much more appealing and aesthetic compared to the current state of the UI.
Cheers!
chrisb
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Re: YAUIUXDT

Post by chrisb »

shamanths13 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:07 am I posted these welcome screen changes in the other thread and was literally mocked by a veteran user. And you wonder why some users here think the Freecad UI is perfect.
I guess you mean this one: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 30#p577749. I would appreciate if you had an openminded look at the contents, and not only that someone doesn't share your opinions.

There are old discussions about an installation wizard which you should look at to include them in your proposals. As far as I can remember, they included certain workbench setups which could well be included here.
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shamanths13
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Re: YAUIUXDT

Post by shamanths13 »

chrisb wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:47 am
shamanths13 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:07 am I posted these welcome screen changes in the other thread and was literally mocked by a veteran user. And you wonder why some users here think the Freecad UI is perfect.
I guess you mean this one: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 30#p577749. I would appreciate if you had an openminded look at the contents, and not only that someone doesn't share your opinions.

There are old discussions about an installation wizard which you should look at to include them in your proposals. As far as I can remember, they included certain workbench setups which could well be included here.
Thats not the one im talking about. I dont want to start a witch hunt, so lets just drop it. I intentionally did not point out the particular response because I dont want to single out the poster.
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obelisk79
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Re: YAUIUXDT

Post by obelisk79 »

chrisb wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:47 am ping
shamanths13 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:27 am ping
First off, Chris, thanks for the tip I think that'll be useful once some of my other suggestions are explored further. Do you mind if I ping you in the future to help moderate this thread in case posts start to veer off topic? I really want to control the content of the thread.

shamanths13, lets just stick to the topic and avoid derails or mentioning other discussions entirely.

I may start multiple threads to explore individual lines of effort related to this topic overall, but what I'd like to do first is explore some of the ideas I've mentioned and perhaps look at a proper order to pursue them.

For example perhaps the first thing that should be investigated is identifying functions/elements which either:
a) don't follow common industry naming conventions creating unwarranted confusion
b) use names that create ambiguity with other functions/elements in FreeCAD

The reason I say that is because themes/icons/layout are very largely user specific and based on personal preference. But Naming affects everyone.

After that, we could look at toolbars, first global, then workbench specific. To see if there is any room to optimize what icons are placed on them and in which order.

Then finally we can approach themes (preference packs) and ui modifications.
chrisb
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Re: YAUIUXDT

Post by chrisb »

obelisk79 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:43 pm First off, Chris, thanks for the tip I think that'll be useful once some of my other suggestions are explored further. Do you mind if I ping you in the future to help moderate this thread in case posts start to veer off topic? I really want to control the content of the thread.
Of course. I appreciate your very serious approach towards an improvement.
For example perhaps the first thing that should be investigated is identifying functions/elements which either:
a) don't follow common industry naming conventions creating unwarranted confusion
b) use names that create ambiguity with other functions/elements in FreeCAD
Just to collect them in a first step: I would add c) different implementation of basically the same thing. Independent from user preferences they should preferably be the same. An example of this would be the different population of lists for fillets, chamfers, loft and sweep sections, Path faces and edges.
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shamanths13
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Re: YAUIUXDT

Post by shamanths13 »

obelisk79 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:43 pm
shamanths13, lets just stick to the topic and avoid derails or mentioning other discussions entirely.
Yes, my bad. I apologize! Wont happen again. Im on board with your plan. Ill do my best to contribute what is within my limits.
Cheers!
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adrianinsaval
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Re: Community UI/UX Improvement Project

Post by adrianinsaval »

IMO theme selection should offer options called Dark, Light and OS Native. Modern and classic are not good descriptions because they only apply to windows really, IMO the native theme I use on linux looks more modern than the stylesheets provided by FreeCAD, + that naming can hurt the sensibilities of the people that prefer the classic windows look or of the linux folks that prefer their system theme. Using preference packs is the right approach as just changing stylesheet usually leaves you with some things that don't look quite right in that theme.

Unit selection is a good idea.

Language could be too, I prefer to have my apps in English even if my system is in spanish.

It could also offer panel layout options. Including Glass is a no go as it is barely functional really and unmaintained. Realthunder's take on it would be better if it ever gets merged. Note that you can still get a separated tree view even without the glass addon.

Font size and icon size are good ideas. Color blind mode is a good idea too but there's no such thing right now. Pick radious might be of interest here to? not sure.

Aspect ratio optimized layout sounds overkill to me, and as with color blind theme, we don't have such things readily available.

I don't understand what is meant with default storage location? AFAIK freecad doesn't such a preference parameter and it's not clear to me what it's supposed to mean.

Backup policy might be an interesting setting to have there, this could also reduce the confusion newbies have when misterious FCStd# or FCBak files appear in their folders.

About integrating addons, selector toolbar would be a great choice to integrate and offer in a startup screen instead of the cumbersome workbench dropdown list.
Last edited by adrianinsaval on Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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