"Cosmetic line"

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Pauvres_honteux
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Re: "Cosmetic line"

Post by Pauvres_honteux »

Please rename it to just "Line".
chrisb
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Re: "Cosmetic line"

Post by chrisb »

Pauvres_honteux wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:42 am Please rename it to just "Line".
I don't like this idea, because in the documentation and in helping in the forum it may be necessary to easily distinguish between the different types. And to talk about the usage of Lines vs. that of Lines is not very clear.
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Pauvres_honteux
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Re: "Cosmetic line"

Post by Pauvres_honteux »

chrisb wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:58 am ... to talk about the usage of Lines vs. that of Lines is not very clear.
Then you must denote them lines for what they are:

- Projected lines: silhouette(the fat outer ones), radii(the thin ones indicating start/end of radii), hole(could be dashed if hidden), thread(a mix of projected and auto-calculated ones) and so on.

- Dimension lines: dimension(the one with numer on it), extension(those extending out to the dimension line), leader(usually a two-part polyline with an arrow at one end and text/numbers on the other part of the line) and so on.

A forward, upward, positive and constructive suggestion could be as follows:

Create an educational picture where all the dimensioning lines are represented. Point to each of them with numbered arrows and put explanatory text next to that picture.
Repeat for projected lines.

For the future you now have something very simple to reference: a specific picture with crystal clear explanatory numbers pointing explicitly to what you want to convey to your target group.

Since you are von germanischer Herkunft you should have access to some very good documentation from the DIN-guys. I'd even go as far as claiming a decent chunk of DIN once formed the very basis for ISO.

Anyway, how ever you twist and turn it, what is shown in wiki and is/was intended with the command "Line" was not, is not and never will be a "Cosmetic line".
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onekk
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Re: "Cosmetic line"

Post by onekk »

As in a drawing like the one @Pauvres_honteux has shown, there are more things, that are "cosmetics" like the dotted surface on the "gum lever cover", and the "cosmetics lines" that indicated the curvature of the cover where the lever will go, but also many other things that are usually seen in "old school" drawing, made by hand, that maybe are not drawn with ISO standard or DIN standard, but are easily understandable, by both technical and not technical people.


Many drawings, are to be addressed to "non technical people", as those are using some "Spare part list" as the drawing shown resembled such sort of things.

So the technical terms are not the most important things, better to have some tools even if it is named incorrectly than having none.

"cosmetics" is easy understandable by many people, and I'm sorry that is difficult to translate it in German, but as german is not the most widespread language in the word, i can live with this problem.

Here in Italy there are many "technical names" that are very difficult to "infere" by a normal schooled people (not technically teached), but this has not stopped to make things, as "technical names" could be learned and eventually modified in times.

Said so I'm a son of a "car repairman" that have used many "technical names" in French as many components, were made in France and the "technical documentation" was untranslated, but this has not stopped to use a "foreign language" "spare parts list" and "read the images" to identify the needed piece.

This is the same as in a "metric world" as I'm living, some things are expressed in "imperial measures" like the "home plumbing" equipment, where the old steel tubes and many threaded things are expressed in Inches.

No problem if FreeCAD appear to be made by diletants, give me some decent documentation and a program that will "fit the bill" and I will be happy, and I think many "small shops" (in European way, so shops made by one or two peoples that have no money to pay for "annual fees" to use a decent CAD) will adopt FreeCAD to make things.


so +1 for "Cosmetic Lines".

Regards

Carlo D.
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Evgeniy
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Re: "Cosmetic line"

Post by Evgeniy »

onekk wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:16 am No problem if FreeCAD appear to be made by diletants
I have nothing against diletants. Everyone has their own degree of education. But it is better to teach FreeCAD users the correct (standardized) terms, so that they do not have to retrain or be confused later.
Last edited by Evgeniy on Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chrisb
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Re: "Cosmetic line"

Post by chrisb »

Pauvres_honteux wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:59 am Since you are von germanischer Herkunft you should have access to some very good documentation from the DIN-guys. I'd even go as far as claiming a decent chunk of DIN once formed the very basis for ISO.
There is indeed a standard for this, known overhere as DIN ISO 128-24. However, it just lists the various lines and how they are used. And even if there was a general term for such lines, it would still be in German.
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onekk
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Re: "Cosmetic line"

Post by onekk »

Evgeniy wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:30 am
I have nothing against diletants. Everyone has their own degree of education. But it is better to teach FreeCAD users the correct (standardized) terms, so that they do not have to retrain or be confused later.

Otherwise, FreeCAD users may become like this ...

...

Not to argue on anything, but if the "standard way" is not a standard?, in other world if there is no a standardized way, but many different ways, or "the most used way" and the other, and maybe the "most used way" is not correct in terms of semantic.

So if there is some ISO standard (if ISO could be defined a standard and not an Mutual Agreement, as it is not "prohibited by law" to use "non standard" things) I will be happy if FreeCAD will use it, if there is no a ISO standard, maybe a "widely used" standard would be a "second best", German people would maybe think that DIN would be a good "second best" an Italian would use his "UNI" a French his "national standard", but sadly it is impossible to have a "standard" for all and for all countries.

But as some other folk as noted (@chrisb maybe) it is difficult to even use some other standard if there is no international manuals, maybe used for decades that contain some sort of "glossary" that translate a term in many languages, hoping that the translator has been some skilled people and not some "student hired only for his low cost", as most of the actual manuals seems to be.

Without taking in account problems related to the "education level" of the "target user"; A little example using myself:

I'm not an architect nor an engineer and in Italian "Ruled Surface" is translated correctly as "superficie rigata" that from my "low knowledge" was not meaningful, as it resemble a different things, I was thinking that it would mean "surface with scratch on it" so i wrote to the translator noting this thing.

At the very end the reality was that "superficie rigata" was the "exact" and "technical" term for it, and I was "very wrong".

So I think, having tried to do some translations, that exist different level of "technical language", somewhat related to the "education level" of people.

If someone would make a change in his CAD workflow due maybe to some "high pay per use fee" and use FreeCAD in a small shop or similar, documentation would be the "key factor", as the "change of workflow" is everytime a "big work".

So some "low level" and "educational documentation" like some "getting started" and "glossaries" would be very useful, but as usual documentation is not at "top of the list" of a "programmer".

Said so I'm facing same problem after having decided to use Emacs as my development editor after having used Atom, VSCode and other things, the "cost of changing" is somewhat high as the "standard shortcuts" are not implemented in Emacs and the "muscular memory" is not helping much.

Hoping having not bothered and hoping to have been decently clear,
Best regards to all.

Carlo D.
GitHub page: https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc.
- In deep articles on FreeCAD.
- Learning how to model with scripting.
- Various other stuffs.

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