FreeCAD 0.18.1 instalation

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SamoZ
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:49 pm

FreeCAD 0.18.1 instalation

Postby SamoZ » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:04 pm

I've installed v0.18.1 parallel to v0.17 (Win 10 x64 - latest). Everytime I run it, I get error DLL... not loaded and GUI is missing. Does anyone have a similar problem?
After that I removed the installation and copied the standalone version of 0.18.1 that works. However, there are no older DrawingDimensioning and Asseblly2 modules available. Why is it so, and can this be corrected? Are these two modules still compatible with this version?
If they are not, this is a big disadvantage because TechDraw simply is not yet mature and misses some key things to produce at least about the standard technical drawings :-(
chrisb
Posts: 18863
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: FreeCAD 0.18.1 instalation

Postby chrisb » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:41 pm

Hi SamoZ, welcome to the forum.
It is no problem to install two (or more) versions on the same computer. Your problem sounds to me as if you have installed them in the same directory, and that, of course, does not work.

DrawingDimensioning and Assembly2 (I guess that's what you are talking about) should work with 0.17 as good as with 0.18, and in both versions it is not recommended. Assembly2 has been superseeded by a2plus, which is under constant devolpment and which is highly rated here in the forum.

DrawingDimensioning ist interesting due to the set of symbols. Please have a look at the current 0.19 with its balloons. Together with user defined SVG symbols there might be a way to use TechDraw for your purposes.
SamoZ
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:49 pm

Re: FreeCAD 0.18.1 instalation

Postby SamoZ » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:33 pm

<It is no problem to install two (or more) versions on the same computer. Your problem sounds to me as if you have installed them in the same directory, and that, of course, does not work.>

No, this is not a problem, I am not a beginner ... The installation was correct in another directory. I suspect that there could be something in conjunction with the latest Win 10 updates (1809+) because there are many problems with it. Or there is a problem with the installation program, as the portable version works well. The only thing I want to have in 0.18 is the Drawing Dimensioning module, which is not in the menu and can not be run, although I added it with the tool in the Tools menu.

<DrawingDimensioning and Assembly2 (I guess that's what you are talking about) should work with 0.17 as good as with 0.18, and in both versions it is not recommended. Assembly2 has been superseeded by a2plus, which is under constant devolpment and which is highly rated here in the forum.
DrawingDimensioning (DD) ist interesting due to the set of symbols. Please have a look at the current 0.19 with its balloons. Together with user defined SVG symbols there might be a way to use TechDraw (TD) for your purposes.>


I will check A2plus.

Technical drawing modules are basically all problematic because they are poorly following the standards (ISO, ASME) and have lot of errors. Correct dimensioning and symbolic annotations is practically impossible even in fairly simple drawings. In the TechDraw module, there are simply too many key shortcomings and bugs. This is a topic for some other occasion; I can only encounter most important of them, which makes the module seem unusable:
  • A technical drawing without the possibility of adding the center-lines of rotational and symmetric parts in all possible projections and details is useless; DD at least something makes it possible, TD nothing...
  • No hidden lines possible and configurable, it would also be necessary to add certain auxiliary lines to drawings (auxiliary geometry).
  • Length (position) dimensioning (also angle) on the center line in all projections is not possible, which is necessary in the technique.
  • It is not possible to dimension length from any arbitrary point to point; in DD you can independently add the point on which you bind the dimension or the leader line, there is nothing similar in the TD ...
  • It is imperative to have a system of standard leader lines for marking the element with symbols (notes, roughness, edges, welds ...); DD has at least some (welds), TD nothing ...
  • It is not possible to change the sectional view scale (no option) when setting the sections, section lines have no options (thickness, line type ...) ...
  • Virtual body cuts plane areas in cut-outs must be marked with a line hatch and not (only) with colors; handmade hatching is a task similar to science fiction, as the FC never finds the right surface to be hatched.
  • And even a lot of smaller things that do not conform to standards and full of bugs that burn your nerves at this work.
At least these matters should be resolved so that the TD is suitable for at least simple technical drawings.
The development of such modules, which almost completely ignore the fineness of today's current rules and standards (ISO, ASME) for technical drawing, do not seem to me just as meaningful and useful.
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sgrogan
Posts: 5420
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:02 pm

Re: FreeCAD 0.18.1 instalation

Postby sgrogan » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:33 pm

SamoZ wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:33 pm
The only thing I want to have in 0.18 is the Drawing Dimensioning module, which is not in the menu and can not be run, although I added it with the tool in the Tools menu.
The problem here seems to be QT5/PY3 related. drawingdimensioning and assembly2 have been orphaned and are do not support porting to these libs. QT4 has officially reached EOL and PY2 will be 1/2020. The DLL errors is probably do to something in the .cfg files in %appdata%/FreeCAD, that got fixed with the uninstall.
For both the installed and portable versions of 18.1 I get

Code: Select all

During initialization the error No module named 'proxies' occurred in C:\Users\Chris\AppData\Roaming\FreeCAD\Mod\drawing_dimensioning\InitGui.py
Please look into the log file for further information
I plan to add a portable "legacy" PY2/QT4 to the 0.18.x release page, but keep in mind this is a short term stop gap.

In the meantime you can us the PY2/QT4 portable version from the 0.19_pre https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/rele ... g/0.19_pre
drawingdimensiioning seems to load with this. I didn't test assembly2.
Mark Szlazak
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:06 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: FreeCAD 0.18.1 instalation

Postby Mark Szlazak » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:41 am

SamoZ wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:33 pm
<It is no problem to install two (or more) versions on the same computer. Your problem sounds to me as if you have installed them in the same directory, and that, of course, does not work.>

No, this is not a problem, I am not a beginner ... The installation was correct in another directory. I suspect that there could be something in conjunction with the latest Win 10 updates (1809+) because there are many problems with it. Or there is a problem with the installation program, as the portable version works well. The only thing I want to have in 0.18 is the Drawing Dimensioning module, which is not in the menu and can not be run, although I added it with the tool in the Tools menu.

<DrawingDimensioning and Assembly2 (I guess that's what you are talking about) should work with 0.17 as good as with 0.18, and in both versions it is not recommended. Assembly2 has been superseeded by a2plus, which is under constant devolpment and which is highly rated here in the forum.
DrawingDimensioning (DD) ist interesting due to the set of symbols. Please have a look at the current 0.19 with its balloons. Together with user defined SVG symbols there might be a way to use TechDraw (TD) for your purposes.>


I will check A2plus.

Technical drawing modules are basically all problematic because they are poorly following the standards (ISO, ASME) and have lot of errors. Correct dimensioning and symbolic annotations is practically impossible even in fairly simple drawings. In the TechDraw module, there are simply too many key shortcomings and bugs. This is a topic for some other occasion; I can only encounter most important of them, which makes the module seem unusable:
  • A technical drawing without the possibility of adding the center-lines of rotational and symmetric parts in all possible projections and details is useless; DD at least something makes it possible, TD nothing...
  • No hidden lines possible and configurable, it would also be necessary to add certain auxiliary lines to drawings (auxiliary geometry).
  • Length (position) dimensioning (also angle) on the center line in all projections is not possible, which is necessary in the technique.
  • It is not possible to dimension length from any arbitrary point to point; in DD you can independently add the point on which you bind the dimension or the leader line, there is nothing similar in the TD ...
  • It is imperative to have a system of standard leader lines for marking the element with symbols (notes, roughness, edges, welds ...); DD has at least some (welds), TD nothing ...
  • It is not possible to change the sectional view scale (no option) when setting the sections, section lines have no options (thickness, line type ...) ...
  • Virtual body cuts plane areas in cut-outs must be marked with a line hatch and not (only) with colors; handmade hatching is a task similar to science fiction, as the FC never finds the right surface to be hatched.
  • And even a lot of smaller things that do not conform to standards and full of bugs that burn your nerves at this work.
At least these matters should be resolved so that the TD is suitable for at least simple technical drawings.
The development of such modules, which almost completely ignore the fineness of today's current rules and standards (ISO, ASME) for technical drawing, do not seem to me just as meaningful and useful.
Yeah some parts of FreeCAD are still in alpha stages:
  • Adequate assembly able to make many commercial grade products
  • Drafting to industry standards
  • Well designed GUI
Few more years before 1.0 or whatever it will be called. Have patience.
Mark Szlazak
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:06 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: FreeCAD 0.18.1 instalation

Postby Mark Szlazak » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:44 am

Mark Szlazak wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:41 am
SamoZ wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:33 pm
<It is no problem to install two (or more) versions on the same computer. Your problem sounds to me as if you have installed them in the same directory, and that, of course, does not work.>

No, this is not a problem, I am not a beginner ... The installation was correct in another directory. I suspect that there could be something in conjunction with the latest Win 10 updates (1809+) because there are many problems with it. Or there is a problem with the installation program, as the portable version works well. The only thing I want to have in 0.18 is the Drawing Dimensioning module, which is not in the menu and can not be run, although I added it with the tool in the Tools menu.

<DrawingDimensioning and Assembly2 (I guess that's what you are talking about) should work with 0.17 as good as with 0.18, and in both versions it is not recommended. Assembly2 has been superseeded by a2plus, which is under constant devolpment and which is highly rated here in the forum.
DrawingDimensioning (DD) ist interesting due to the set of symbols. Please have a look at the current 0.19 with its balloons. Together with user defined SVG symbols there might be a way to use TechDraw (TD) for your purposes.>


I will check A2plus.

Technical drawing modules are basically all problematic because they are poorly following the standards (ISO, ASME) and have lot of errors. Correct dimensioning and symbolic annotations is practically impossible even in fairly simple drawings. In the TechDraw module, there are simply too many key shortcomings and bugs. This is a topic for some other occasion; I can only encounter most important of them, which makes the module seem unusable:
  • A technical drawing without the possibility of adding the center-lines of rotational and symmetric parts in all possible projections and details is useless; DD at least something makes it possible, TD nothing...
  • No hidden lines possible and configurable, it would also be necessary to add certain auxiliary lines to drawings (auxiliary geometry).
  • Length (position) dimensioning (also angle) on the center line in all projections is not possible, which is necessary in the technique.
  • It is not possible to dimension length from any arbitrary point to point; in DD you can independently add the point on which you bind the dimension or the leader line, there is nothing similar in the TD ...
  • It is imperative to have a system of standard leader lines for marking the element with symbols (notes, roughness, edges, welds ...); DD has at least some (welds), TD nothing ...
  • It is not possible to change the sectional view scale (no option) when setting the sections, section lines have no options (thickness, line type ...) ...
  • Virtual body cuts plane areas in cut-outs must be marked with a line hatch and not (only) with colors; handmade hatching is a task similar to science fiction, as the FC never finds the right surface to be hatched.
  • And even a lot of smaller things that do not conform to standards and full of bugs that burn your nerves at this work.
At least these matters should be resolved so that the TD is suitable for at least simple technical drawings.
The development of such modules, which almost completely ignore the fineness of today's current rules and standards (ISO, ASME) for technical drawing, do not seem to me just as meaningful and useful.
Yeah some parts of FreeCAD are still in alpha stages:
  • Adequate assembly able to make many levels of commercial grade models
  • Drafting to industry standards
  • Well designed GUI
Few more years before 1.0 or whatever it will be called. Have patience.
chrisb
Posts: 18863
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: FreeCAD 0.18.1 instalation

Postby chrisb » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:08 am

Citing too long and citing a post with too long cites doesn't make things more convincing.

None of the things you mention is alpha. Alpha means you cannot really use it, even if you are trained.
SamoZ
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:49 pm

Re: FreeCAD 0.18.1 instalation

Postby SamoZ » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:38 am

Thanks for the quick response.

I am very well aware of the nature of this project and the limitations. From my point of view, it is the most serious problem that I can not make at least a decent technical drawing, which is as harmonized as possible to some standard (ISO I know very well) if I am already trying to make a 3D model. FreeCAD is primarily a technical application that should be used by users oriented in this direction.
Therefore, it would be appropriate to follow the latest technical standards when finishing up the final drawings (it is strongly recommended that the best ISO/ASME). It is not logical to create some new styles, rules, and tools in the program past these standards. For start, you do not need to enforce all the options of the possible ones in the standards, but at least the most commonly used ones (for example, the standards define several types of dimensioning arrows, the sharpest are the most common and sufficient for start). However, for some functions, the possibility for setting some of the important options are critical (for example, selecting line thicknesses, line types, projection scales...). Drawing of correctly marked sections, hatching surfaces, etc. is also very important.

If we prioritized the problems listed in the TechDraw (TD) module, then the DrawingDimensioning (DD) module would not be needed anymore. Currently, with DD I can do more and more correctly than the TD module. In fact, you should unite some things and improve them a bit, and in this way you could solve over 90% of problems with technical drawings (not optimal, but nevertheless). In the foreseeable future, I can describe in a little bit more detail what anh how would have to be minimally edited in the TD module in order to follow the logic of the technical drawing rules (at least according to ISO, which is almost the same as ASME), if, of course, you want.
chrisb
Posts: 18863
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: FreeCAD 0.18.1 installation

Postby chrisb » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:17 am

SamoZ wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:38 am
If we prioritized the problems listed in the TechDraw (TD) module, then the DrawingDimensioning (DD) module would not be needed anymore. Currently, with DD I can do more and more correctly than the TD module. In fact, you should unite some things and improve them a bit, and in this way you could solve over 90% of problems with technical drawings (not optimal, but nevertheless). In the foreseeable future, I can describe in a little bit more detail what anh how would have to be minimally edited in the TD module in order to follow the logic of the technical drawing rules (at least according to ISO, which is almost the same as ASME), if, of course, you want.
wandererfan has asked several times here for standard documents. So I'm sure your help will be appreciated. I have seen here every now and then complaints that things are not conforming to some standard, but to improve things it is of course necessary to provide the standards.
All of these standards are similar, and maybe there will be switches in the future, but for a first go I would always use ISO, and neither ASME nor one of the european standards.

BTW: To make life easier for searchers you may consider to correct the spelling in the subject of the first post in this topic.
Mark Szlazak
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:06 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: FreeCAD 0.18.1 installation

Postby Mark Szlazak » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:33 pm

chrisb wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:17 am
SamoZ wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:38 am
If we prioritized the problems listed in the TechDraw (TD) module, then the DrawingDimensioning (DD) module would not be needed anymore. Currently, with DD I can do more and more correctly than the TD module. In fact, you should unite some things and improve them a bit, and in this way you could solve over 90% of problems with technical drawings (not optimal, but nevertheless). In the foreseeable future, I can describe in a little bit more detail what anh how would have to be minimally edited in the TD module in order to follow the logic of the technical drawing rules (at least according to ISO, which is almost the same as ASME), if, of course, you want.
wandererfan has asked several times here for standard documents. So I'm sure your help will be appreciated. I have seen here every now and then complaints that things are not conforming to some standard, but to improve things it is of course necessary to provide the standards.
All of these standards are similar, and maybe there will be switches in the future, but for a first go I would always use ISO, and neither ASME nor one of the european standards.

BTW: To make life easier for searchers you may consider to correct the spelling in the subject of the first post in this topic.
Here is a link on the theory of dimensioning which mentions the standards. Might be good to have as well besides the actual standard.

https://epdf.tips/theory-of-dimensionin ... ering.html