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FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
Is FreeCAD going to be compatible with Apple Silicon (ARM) processor technology that Apple is adapting in its upcoming computers?
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Re: FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
FreeCAD already works on armhf (32 bit) and aarch64 architectures, as proven by FreeCAD working on the Raspberry Pi (Raspbian and Ubuntu). FreeCAD and Raspberry Pi 4
So, it will probably work. More important than the CPU architecture is the libraries; Qt, Eigen3, Boost, Coin3, OpenGL, etc., should be available, otherwise FreeCAD may not run. With MacOS wanting to remove support for OpenGL, this is actually something that could prevent FreeCAD, and other free software packages like Blender, from working.
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Re: FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
Is the Blender Foundation thinking of creating an interface between OpenGL and the new thing?
FreeCAD als Maschinenbauer in die Konstruktion und Fertigung integrieren. Schulung buchen: www.alsado.de/freecad-schulungen
Re: FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
You better ask this the Blender guys.
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Re: FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
I guess this is rhetorical.
Given time and money anything is possible.
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Re: FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
I believe openGL won't simply just "stop working" on mac. They would be crazy, they would cut themselves from 90% of the 3D software out there and nearly all of the games. Hollywood uses Blender massively now. Apple can't afford to loose Hollywood I guess.
My shoot is that they will probably provide it as an "unmaintained" "bridge" between their platform and openGL. But I believe open-sourcing has a firm grip in the game now. Either they make it VERY easy for developers to use their new 3D platform (well-documented, open, etc), in which case it might work for them, or the idea will sink...
In any case, being open-source or not, I don't believe anybody out there would be just happy to spend additional work to recode their whole 3D system...
My shoot is that they will probably provide it as an "unmaintained" "bridge" between their platform and openGL. But I believe open-sourcing has a firm grip in the game now. Either they make it VERY easy for developers to use their new 3D platform (well-documented, open, etc), in which case it might work for them, or the idea will sink...
In any case, being open-source or not, I don't believe anybody out there would be just happy to spend additional work to recode their whole 3D system...
- kkremitzki
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Re: FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
To chime in on that, it's been a while since I checked, but IIRC on MacOS 10.15, there is no longer a system-provided OpenGL.h, though there is a dynlib. So I suppose it's possible to get things working with a user-provided header file. But that may give you a preview of what changes will be in 10.16. From my vague apprehension of the situation, I think one long-term solution would be for Vulkan support to be added to Coin (it's already in Qt) and then to use https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK
Of course, in the demo they showed a Debian 10 VM, so it will at least be possible to run FreeCAD that way.
Also, given the need to run existing x86 software, and the whole draw of making their own silicon being that they can do what they want or need with it, I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of technology like what's been done by Loongson's mips64el chips as detailed in this article: https://venturebeat.com/2015/09/03/chin ... -arm-code/
Of course, in the demo they showed a Debian 10 VM, so it will at least be possible to run FreeCAD that way.
Also, given the need to run existing x86 software, and the whole draw of making their own silicon being that they can do what they want or need with it, I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of technology like what's been done by Loongson's mips64el chips as detailed in this article: https://venturebeat.com/2015/09/03/chin ... -arm-code/
Re: FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
This week I went to an apple store in order to check if FreeCAD runs on one of the Macs not listed on Apple's OpenGL support page. I had already phoned them and asked if I could try it, so i was surprised that I had to go through this procedure again:
He: "Yes, of course it works on all Macs, if it runs with Catalina"
Me: "It does, but this MacBook isn't listed on the compatibility page. So I came here to test it."
He: (searching the internet). "They say on their internet site that ..."
Me: "I know what it says there; but will it run if the Mac doesn't support OpenGL. I came to test it."
He: (searching the internet) "It's not listed on the compatibility page, but I'm sure that the developers have adapted it to the new technique".
Me: "Can I test it?"
He: "It sure will run"
Me: "It isn't yet ported, it still uses OpenGL"
He: "Then it will not run."
Me: "It could be emulated in software, that's why I wanted to test it".
He: "It may run, but it will be awfully slow, I mean really slow, you sure will not use it. It will be much slower than on your old Mac"
Me: "Can I test it?"
He: "(mumble mumble...)"
Me: "I have phoned, I came here to test it. Everything else was already said on the phone"
He searched a computer (took him 10 minutes) and I was allowed to install FreeCAD and load one of my models.
And it worked! Turning a complicated model in 3D space was fully acceptable.
He: "Yes, of course it works on all Macs, if it runs with Catalina"
Me: "It does, but this MacBook isn't listed on the compatibility page. So I came here to test it."
He: (searching the internet). "They say on their internet site that ..."
Me: "I know what it says there; but will it run if the Mac doesn't support OpenGL. I came to test it."
He: (searching the internet) "It's not listed on the compatibility page, but I'm sure that the developers have adapted it to the new technique".
Me: "Can I test it?"
He: "It sure will run"
Me: "It isn't yet ported, it still uses OpenGL"
He: "Then it will not run."
Me: "It could be emulated in software, that's why I wanted to test it".
He: "It may run, but it will be awfully slow, I mean really slow, you sure will not use it. It will be much slower than on your old Mac"
Me: "Can I test it?"
He: "(mumble mumble...)"
Me: "I have phoned, I came here to test it. Everything else was already said on the phone"
He searched a computer (took him 10 minutes) and I was allowed to install FreeCAD and load one of my models.
And it worked! Turning a complicated model in 3D space was fully acceptable.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
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Re: FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
In their state of the union video ( https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/102/ ) they are telling us a bit more about open source support.
"We have already done some of the initial work for the os community to get startet and we will publish patches for them in the next days." while they were showing attached slide.
"We have already done some of the initial work for the os community to get startet and we will publish patches for them in the next days." while they were showing attached slide.
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- Screenshot 2020-06-27 at 10.33.51.png (363.81 KiB) Viewed 3608 times
Re: FreeCAD Apple Silicon (ARM) support
... and if they are crazy enough to do it? Would that be the push for FreeCAD to move away from openGL? Vulkan? Metal isn't open-source. Apple seems to be shooting itself in the foot in this area.