About funding and all that

[JulianStirling]

This escalates when being merged with others or starting a new collaborating with others. Also the information flow in larger companies concerning CAD I have never seen as very good, because data is incompatible or can only be viewed on selected workstations. I've seen this in a number of large European companies (maybe its different in pure mechanical design companies). Classic example could be a temporary installation of CAD on a meeting room PC for an important meeting. Processes involving several departments (IT for license sever) would need days to get that running. In a matrix organisation project engineers can tpyically not look-up or browse mechanical department models, because you need good arguments and a long term need to get a valuable CAD license approved. Instead of looking up what you want to know, you rely on phone call info or just give up. Many project managers I know never looked themselfs at the CAD model, they just know powerpoint screenshots before seeing the real parts.

Unlimited installations is an excellent point. I suppose I should have announced my biases. I work in a university doing open hardware. In universities we tend to get discounts that mean we can bulk or site licences the CAD programs so then we don't tend to have the problems with limited installations.

* "Volontary License" button, here you can add a string/link for the supporters page

I like the idea. I think that it could do with a better wording and maybe some minor "support" benefit. I would happily try to write a FreeCAD license cost into grants. There is no way I would be able to get a voluntary licence through procurement.

[catman]

In universities we tend to get discounts that mean we can bulk or site licences the CAD programs so then we don't tend to have the problems with limited installations.
...
There is no way I would be able to get a voluntary licence through procurement.

Universities are difficult, I agree.

Nevertheless, they are morally one of the most important players. When faculties and their students work with a single "pro" brand that creates a strong bias in the market and gives a huge adantage to those companies providing the licenses (with little or no benefit when an open source solution exists). Especially universities working with public money, I think have a moral duty to use neutral software towards their students where available. Even industry transfer will be more fair. If you do a funded research project with say CATIA and I am working with Solidworks I have a disadvantage in transfer your results compared to other ones using CATIA.If you would use FreeCAD, each has the same chance and issues.

But since academic procurement rules sometimes are more difficult to change than solving the climate advance, maybe the "volontary license" for academia could be committing a dev-resource (i.e. one post doc mentoring student projects for FreeCAD itself in a certain area). Lets say Madrid university specializes in advancing SheetMetal WB with KI and advanced unfolding algorithms, whereas Liverpool is looking at automatic dimensioning in TechDraw? For this we wouldn't need any kind of formal structure nor money and could start today.

[JulianStirling]

Especially universities working with public money, I think have a moral duty to use neutral software towards their students where available.

Oh how much I agree, but this is not the prevailing view of many academics, let alone those in procurement. This is a rant/discussion that will take us so far off topic that I think it is best to leave it at that.

... for academia could be committing a dev-resource (i.e. one post doc mentoring student projects for FreeCAD itself in a certain area)

Not 100% impossible, but students are not cheap labour. If you want to run a project you need to have an academics outcome not simply product development. Working on a new to the world algorithm is research, improving a specific program to give it features that others already have is not. This does not mean that no code comes from academia that has not already been done. It just means that it is either a specific means to a research end, it is a student/post-doc who is investing extra time out of passion, or it is a student/post-doc who may soon struggle to justify that they were doing research.

However I do think there are a growing number of people in academia who care about open file formats CAD. Some, like me, care about open hardware. Others sporadically improve their custom equipment, maybe with 4-5 years in between revisions. Unless you buy and save a specific copy of a CAD program you wont be able to open the CAD files after a revision or two. Academics do have control of their funds to buy software licences, just not to donate money. "Voluntary license" sounds like the latter. Of course, you don't want to go down the horrible "community/pro" licensing that Libra Office just suggested, but and organisation that could offer some level of support would may be something that some academics with largish grants may want to buy into.

[catman]

an organisation that could offer some level of support would may be something that some academics with largish grants may want to buy into.

Thanks for the insights. I am not aware what Libre Office is doing but I will have a look.
However, setting up some kind of support business is an interesting option not only for academia but also for industry use. Many would pay to have some phone/desktop support to get started or prevent getting stuck with no idea what to do. Sometimes it even helps to know that there is not quick solution. But that indeed would mean organizing a rather complex orgainisational structure. A nice start-up idea, though.

[JulianStirling]

Many would pay to have some phone/desktop support to get started or prevent getting stuck with no idea what to do. Sometimes it even helps to know that there is not quick solution.

I think phone is hard as there needs to be someone available to man the phones. I think email/chat probably with a similar level of support that this forum often already gives, is easier for those starting it up to do part time and see if it scales. I suppose how many hours of support are offered with a support contract is an interesting question.

This does not mean that those selling support should offer worse "service" on the forum than they do to customers. It is just an acknowledgment that time is a finite resource for members of the community and they are within their rights to prioritise people that pay them.

Someone once said to me that "A true open project only charges for privileged access to resources that are finite". Support time is finite, installations can scale infinitely.

[timmwille]

Interesting read: https://krita.org/item/funding-krita/

Some people asked me about a "donate" button, there was one on the sourceforge page, that linked to Jürgen's paypal account I think. We could place that button on the freecadweb homepage, no?

In any case, the money question is becoming recurrent... More and more people are wanting to pay... Maybe it is time to think of good uses we could do with money? There is also the problem of organizing this, I suppose if you begin to gather a significative amount of money, you need a kind of structure (foundation, etc...) I have no idea of how much effort and work is needed to put in setting up and maintaining a foundation...

Hello Yorik and from GitHub also mentioned Kurt aka kkremitzki I wanted to know if this is the right place to share my proposal?

(I'm currently part messenger, part volunteer to make this happen and part years long supporter of FreeCAD as Open Source Enthusiast and engineer)

So I can see, this Idea of a FreeCAD Foundation might sound appealing, though I agree on what I've read in the Wiki this might be considered wisely as of admin workload included. Though I have to say funding some FreeCAD devs fulltime would be somthing I very much would like to see. I'm not a software developer so I can only offer my help in providing the contacts, help with coordination and partnerships in making this happen.

The 2 Years funding option might also work for some developers specifically, though it is funding within a German research and development project connected to Open Source Hardware toolchain development. So it would be a collaboration close to real life situation hand in hand with engineers (not stating if this is a good or bad thing in software development, but from what I've seen in all the Facebook, Forum and GitHub Diskussions since 2016 it might not be too bad to join forces.)

So I would like to know what the fastest way to discuss this would be? As the opportunity is closing in fast and I would like to propose a solution.

Could be
a) a FreeCAD Foundation (based in Germany, Support from OSE Germany and others included)
b) Developer Team based on individual contracts
c) A solution proposed by the FreeCAD Developers/Community

As this would be not private but public money we have to keep some legal boundaries (as work location/legal entity in Germany etc.) but I'm happy to go for wild and bold solutions like "board and lodging in Hamburg for some Dev sprints" or the already proposed FreeCAD Founddation, or finding a partner/umbrella organisation with seat in Germany to function as a host for FreeCAD as mentioned in the Wiki.

Please help me find the right place to present this properly in the forums. Time is precious in this case (and always).

[ragohix769]

Another model to explore is Ardour.

Contact Paul, just to get another perspective.

+1

www.Ardour.org it's a good (and successful) example on how to mix money and raise funds to pay devs and work for a complex OpenSource Project like FreeCad.

[FLOSS Noobie]

As this would be not private but public money we have to keep some legal boundaries (as work location/legal entity in Germany etc.) but I'm happy to go for wild and bold solutions like "board and lodging in Hamburg for some Dev sprints" or the already proposed FreeCAD Founddation, or finding a partner/umbrella organisation with seat in Germany to function as a host for FreeCAD as mentioned in the Wiki.

Hi, as far as I know there was an application for the Software Freedom Conservacy umbrella organization, but there have not been any updates on that. https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... &start=10
Perhaps, the timing of the post was not the best, as people are busy working on the 0.19 release (that´s what I was told on a post I made about donations). So, for now we have to be patient.

[chrisb]

Please don't quote complete (long) posts.Extract the parts that you directly refer to. That's easier to follow.

[yorik]

Hello Yorik and from GitHub also mentioned Kurt aka kkremitzki I wanted to know if this is the right place to share my proposal?

Hi Timm,

Sorry I didn't see this post earlier... We can all also be contacted here by PM, it is usually easier and faster to get the attention of someone specific, as this forum is becoming so large that it's hard to keep track of everything.

Regarding your proposal: We are already in the process of looking at how to build an association or NGO. However, the country where it will be located will probably be decided by where the members/administrators reside, to ease the paperwork. In any case, this is still early discussion, and it will likely take some time before it becomes a reality. We also applied to the Free Software Conservancy, but there is still no decision,and it can take a lot of time too.

If we have a short timespan, I'm afraid none of these two solutions will work...

If you can use the Open Source Ecology structure, I would say funding specific developers through it might be the easiest solution. We have a team funding on https://liberapay.com/FreeCAD/ , maybe that would be a possible channel?