FrreeCAD Tutorial

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tommeyers
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FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by tommeyers »

I have been continuing to think about the FreeCAD tutorials. I have posted my vague concern that something was needed to pull the tutorials together. At that time it was just a vague feeling and I didn't have a good definition of the problem I wanted to solve.

Since then I have, as promised in a prior post, looked at other software with tutorials. I looked at KhanAcademy, W3Schools, Oracle/Java and a few more. What I saw made my understanding less vague. I think the elements that need to be addressed are:

1) A functional perspective of the tutorials. That is what do users what to do? For eamnple, I want to make objects that I can 3d Print and to have photo quality renderings. That translates into a set of skills that I need to acquire to perform those function. Despite the text in the wiki that states that the intention is to be functionally oriented the wiki is more workbench oriented. That gap between a functional need (3d modelling) and the WB training are what is missing.

2) References to two and more versions. In my opinion the changes between .16 and .17 should have resulted in keeping and freezing .16 documentation and cloning then changing it to .17. Yes, two versions of the documents with a sunset date for .16 software and documentation. Yes, for EN and all others.

3) Roadmaps for the Tutotials.

Below is a first proposal for the tutorial part of the wiki:
Capture.PNG
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Notice that the orientation is after the stuff that is function independent (like install) is Functional (3D Modelling, BIM, Architecture, ...)

Notice too the roadmap section where the tutorial steps are identified (3D Modeling: ... Sketch, Loft, ...); where am I, where will I finish. are we there yet.

I believe that the material for the steps exists and that organnizing what we have can make the functionally oriented training that is missing.

I would like your comments/concerns/suggestions.

I have installed mediawiki on my server so I can make all my messes here.

Tom Meyers
Mark Szlazak
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Re: FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by Mark Szlazak »

I would like to suggest a tutorial structured like most out on the market for other CAD programs. An example is "Engineering Design with Solidworks 2017" by David Planchard. For good videos to structure a tutorial there is "SolidWorks 2018 Essential Training" by Gabriel Corbett https://www.lynda.com/SOLIDWORKS-tutori ... 669-2.html.

Thanks.
jmaustpc
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Re: FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by jmaustpc »

tommeyers wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:20 pm 2) References to two and more versions. In my opinion the changes between .16 and .17 should have resulted in keeping and freezing .16 documentation and cloning then changing it to .17. Yes, two versions of the documents with a sunset date for .16 software and documentation. Yes, for EN and all others.
This has been discussed in the past, our conclusion is that keeping the wiki up to date with the very few who work much on it means that your suggestion, which was consideted, is unworkable. We decided on the simple policy that the wiki follows master (not release versions) with a note added saying from what version something applies from where appropriate.

If you want to improve the wiki, which then needs to be translated into numerous languages, then I suggest you start by keeping it simple, fix little things that are already there and then add some missing pages etc. And keep compatible with what is currently there, rather than spending a lot of time on grand schemes, redesigns or major changes. Recreating the whole wiki would of course be a almost impossibly huge job and everytime you change anything it the creates a huge job for those changes to be translated, so changes need to matter, not just be pretty.
tommeyers
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Re: FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by tommeyers »

jmaustpc wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 3:01 pm
This has been discussed in the past, our conclusion is that keeping the wiki up to date with the very few who work much on it means that your suggestion, which was consideted, is unworkable. We decided on the simple policy that the wiki follows master (not release versions) with a note added saying from whatgcat version something applies from where appropriate.

If you want to improve the wiki, which then needs to be translated into numerous languages, then I suggest you start by keeping it simple, fix little things that are already there and then add some missing pages etc. And keep compatible with what is currently there, rather than spending a lot of time on grand schemes, redesigns or major changes. Recreating the whole wiki would of course be a almost impossibly huge job and everytime you change anything it the creates a huge job for those changes to be translated, so changes need to matter, not just be pretty.
The process of freezing, duplicating and sunsetting is *not* unworkable. The process is simple and it leads to a simpler content. Simpler content because the authors can focus on the current release without mentioning how it used to be. This process creates less work and relevant content. everything related to .16 and earlier should have a sunset date

I have been studying/reviewing the training available for Fusion 360. It is a bit slow moving but once the general and common areas are covered it is mostly functionally oriented (Modelling, CNC, Rendering, testing) and includes a learning roadmap. There is a similar cross-over between workspaces like workbenches and the same sketch workflow. The general i/f has many similar capabilities although I think the tooltips, etc help a little more in learning. The training is video so that makes it slower. For me text and images would serve as well or better.

I believe that a "grand scheme with major changes and redesigns" that jmaustpc objects to are necessary for FC. Because a willy-nilly methodology for training and documentation will slow adoption. The mixture of documentation for multiple releases, the lack of a learning roadmap and documentation that is not user function oriented makes learning and using difficult. It made it slow for me and when you review some of the recent new user help posts to the forum you can see the gap between what some one wants to do and the learning steps (not taken but necessary) to get from where they are to where they want to be. For example, modeling a curvy solid you need to know 1,2,3,4,... before you start. 0-install/configure; 1-the I/F for a modeler, 2-the capabilities of WB's for modeling ... N- modeling.

To begin, I suggest some white-board planning for the documentation and the training. (1-what problem are we trying to solve, 2-what are the solutions; 1-where are we; 2-where do we want to go; what are the gaps), plan, publish the plan solicit comments, implement the plan.

Tom Meyers, 50 years IT: hands-on developer, manager, trainer, mentor; Educ: CompSci, MBA
ulrich1a
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Re: FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by ulrich1a »

I think your analysis is not wrong. Tutorials with topics like hands on towards a specific goal are not easy to find in the Wiki. But something is available. Have a look a this side: https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Category:Tutorials

I would say the Manual-series is closely related to your goal and especially written for FreeCAD 0.16 starting here: https://freecadweb.org/wiki/Manual:Introduction Then according to your idea, we would need a new series for FreeCAD 0.17.

At the same time we have to face, that there are not so much authors willing to write documentation. And a good software needs also the workbench related documentation for those who wanted to look up specific things. So for keeping this part of the documentation up to date, I would not change the current approach.

There was shortly a new design of the tutorial page, with a nicer look: https://freecadweb.org/wiki/Tutorials/ For me it boils down to further develop this page and fill it with navigation and missing tutorials.
Another thing that is difficult to understand for new users is the idea behind the workbenches. This needs a better explanation as just an alphabetical list.

Ulrich
tommeyers
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Re: FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by tommeyers »

Ulrich, Thanks for the links. https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Category:Tutorials and https://freecadweb.org/wiki/Manual:Introduction

The Category:Tutorials with Category:Manual (https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Category:Manual) with a roadmap is in my opinion just what is needed as well as having many of the other wiki pages categorized as Category:Reference. See: https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Special ... rizedPages for a list of candidates.

In that way the wealth of information already available can be divided between Category:Manual for broad functionally oriented learning with references to Category:Reference pages for narrow tool/manipulation information.

This could also reduce the number of items in the top level menu of the wiki as many of the items will be related to either manual or reference.

Regarding creating a new series for .17 I think that branching .16 to create .17 (so initially .17 is .16 content) and maybe encouraging the software developer to update the wiki when the software is updated. That way .17 wiki would exist parallel to .17 development and without needing to qualify text as .17 or .16.

I hope we will get more discussion on the content of the wiki and contributions to help define the problem and offer alternatives.

Thank you, Tom Meyers
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sgrogan
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Re: FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by sgrogan »

tommeyers wrote: Thu May 17, 2018 8:56 pm Regarding creating a new series for .17 I think that branching .16 to create .17 (so initially .17 is .16 content) and maybe encouraging the software developer to update the wiki when the software is updated. That way .17 wiki would exist parallel to .17 development and without needing to qualify text as .17 or .16.
The question is how to implement this?
See here for example: https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 70#p183486
At present we have 0.16-legacy, 0.17-stable, and 0.18-dev
We have 0.16-legacy due to the huge changes in Part Design, that will take time to fully migrate, so this might be an outlier, or maybe not. if there are further "leaps" that we all hope for.

Thanks for everyone who works on the docs :) , you guys are the unsung hero’s.
"fight the good fight"
freedman
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Re: FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by freedman »

When I first started looking at Freecad I went to Youtube. It didn't take very long to realize that I was using .17 late and now .18 and most of the documentation was much older. It didn't take long to get bored because I couldn't really watch what there were doing because I was sure it would change.
If the tutorials/manuals could at least be version catagorized. Then I could watch/read all the newest ones and work my way backwards when required.
chrisb
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Re: FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by chrisb »

freedman wrote: Fri May 18, 2018 5:07 am If the tutorials/manuals could at least be version catagorized.
Hopefully some authors are reading this and modify their informations.
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emills2
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Re: FrreeCAD Tutorial

Post by emills2 »

tommeyers wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:20 pm I would like your comments/concerns/suggestions.
it looks like a very good plan, with one exception: the execution path.

i wish i had the final result, but i'm not personally willing to devote that much of my time to maintain other people's documentation....sorry. so i'm very grateful for what is there.

here's an idea: for each of the functional categories you list, link available tutorials that touch of the topic, listed by order of difficulty X relevance to the functional category.

one page for 0.16, one for 0.17, one for .18 once it is warranted.

that way, anyone can write any tutorial they want, using any workbench of version they want, and if you maintain the roadmap pages, you get to gatekeep arcane/confusing stuff to not confuse readers.

if you do a good job, your wiki page will grow in status, forum posters will refer others to it, and tutorial writers may even submit their pages to you and request a specific placement in your roadmap. At this point you will by force of nature acquire editorial power over the content.

what really makes me feel dumb on the wiki is when i cannot find a page that i know exists, have visited multiple times, and i have to read the entire post history of a forum user, because all i can remember is who had linked that wiki page, and what year.
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