microsoft buys github

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kisolre
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby kisolre » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:09 pm

Cyril wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:53 pm
jmaustpc wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:58 pm
Is there anyone who is based in Europe?
Of course. Many forum's user are based in Europe as testified by the number of «Forums in other languages» sections. I am pretty sure you are aware of that so can you precise what you have in mind ?
Source code hosting facilitis. Such as the ones in the wikipedia link he provided.
jmaustpc
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby jmaustpc » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:11 pm

Cyril wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:53 pm
jmaustpc wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:58 pm
Is there anyone who is based in Europe?
Of course. Many forum's user are based in Europe as testified by the number of «Forums in other languages» sections. I am pretty sure you are aware of that so can you precise what you have in mind ?
No, sorry I was not clear in that comment, by "anyone" I don't mean FreeCAD people, I know we have many of those, I meant hosting services like GitHub, but in Europe not the USA and not owned/controlled/effected by the USA. :)
jmaustpc
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby jmaustpc » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:40 pm

kisolre wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:09 pm
Cyril wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:53 pm
jmaustpc wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:58 pm
Is there anyone who is based in Europe?
Of course. Many forum's user are based in Europe as testified by the number of «Forums in other languages» sections. I am pretty sure you are aware of that so can you precise what you have in mind ?
Source code hosting facilitis. Such as the ones in the wikipedia link he provided.

we cross posted! :)

I might have been faster if it had not been for my currently being in the middle of consuming a very nice glass of Aussie red wine, a Lindeman's Cabernet Sauvignon created only a bit down the road from me, well less than a thousand kilometres away, across the state boarder in Victoria. It was on special today only Aus$5.00, it's normally quite a lot more than that, a very nice wine. I don't drink much or very often, but this is an exceptionally nice wine to drink. Its really a bit of a waste but I bought it mostly because I needed half a bottle for a roast. I put about a 2.5kg beef roast in a large steel baking dish with onions, beetroot, parsnips, swedes, turnips, potatoes, sweat potatoes, then half a bottle of red wine and beef stock, then cover it in foil and cook on a low temperature for about 5 hours, an hour or so before its ready I have to put an extra large tray of more of the same vegetables and pumpkin in to roast with just a light covering of spray canola oil and a little salt, according to my children and I such a roast is not complete without also some peas and usually sweet corn. My wife and 4 kids LOVE that recipe and just demolish a huge quantity of it whenever I cook it. Then after eating all of that, there is always at least one teenager who has to ask "Hey Dad, what's for pudding?" Teenagers sure do eat a lot, particularly when they have a farm to run around on and are not allowed to sit on phones/computers/etc. for hours on end. :lol:
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kkremitzki
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby kkremitzki » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:20 pm

We could host a GitLab instance in DigitalOcean's Frankfurt, Germany datacenter. This is currently where some of the FreeCAD hosting experiments are located, including the IRC<->Gitter mirroring bot. However, GitLab is a bit beefy in terms of requirements, so we'd need at least a $20/month machine, and it would be better to have a $40/month one.
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Cyril
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby Cyril » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:21 pm

jmaustpc wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:11 pm
No, sorry I was not clear in that comment, by "anyone" I don't mean FreeCAD people, I know we have many of those, I meant hosting services like GitHub, but in Europe not the USA and not owned/controlled/effected by the USA. :)
Yes as noted in my previous post. Framasoft is a french trustful 18 years old association. For example last year they did crowdfunding campaign for Peertube. They host their own gitlab instance in France. If french government word censored up even more than as they do now and start some kind of embargo Framasoft will warn you long time before anyone get his access cut. They often campaign for free software adoption in public institutions and against stupid laws which wants to limit free internet, internet neutrality and free software.
They encouraged people to run their own instance but welcome everyone.
Cyril wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:26 pm
If self hosting is an issue. Some great and stable free/libre software promotion associations has Gitlab instance like Framasoft : https://framagit.org
I blog about HVAC / BIM / Energy : pythoncvc.net. If you like you can follow the RSS feed.
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kkremitzki
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby kkremitzki » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:38 pm

Besides framagit.org and salsa.debian.org there's also invent.kde.org for FOSS project hosted GitLab instances.
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vejmarie
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby vejmarie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:43 pm

I spent some time reading this thread, and while arriving at the end, I am still trying to figuring out what we are trying to fix as issue ? Is there any changes into github which prohibits us to continue to work on FreeCAD ? The fact that they are cancelling accounts from people located in foreign countries might be an issue, but follow the application of the export regulations of the US (and they might also have unpublished reasons also). Europe is doing the same thing even if we do not apply strictly the same rule than US. Self hosting might be an option, but the liability aspect seems pretty high to me especially if we explain that we are willing to do it to workaround international export regulation. This is definitly not a good idea that we can't recommend at all, and this could be considered as unlawful even in Europe.

If we self host we must follow international export restriction, or at least the people in charge of it otherwise this could expose them to some very serious issues. I will probably not have written all of this a couple of decades ago due to my younger age and lack of knowledge on this matter, but after having spent a lot of time with legal people involved into open and closed source solutions, all of this is serious things.

I am totally open to alternative to github, but I really believe that the reason we switch shall be driven on something else than github is following changes into export regulation. It is extremely sad for the people living into the impacted countries, but we are not entitled to change the laws.
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yorik
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby yorik » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:34 pm

We are not entitled to change laws, but I think it's very important that an open source project like ours fights for these kind of things. For ex, refusing or even making it difficult for someone, say, from Iran, to collaborate or even get FreeCAD, just because some government of some country said so, would be totally, fully, absolutely wrong and completely against everything we're doing here (my opinion of course, but hopefully it is shared by the vast majority here).

I don't think anyone would bother to sue us if we self-hosted a FreeCAD Git server and didn't enforce US law... At least at the moment :) But it would indeed be just pushing the issue forward, because sooner or later the hosting provider we use would decide to follow US law, then we're back at point zero. But using providers who fight for the same causes such as framagit is good i think.

However a solution now appears brightly to me: Let's spread! Let's not have a single FreeCAD Git address! Let's have FreeCAD mirrors everywhere! All it needs is dedicated people wishing to help maintain the mirror (It's not much work, just push the latest changes to it regularly, until we find a way to automate it). I'm maintaining the gitlab one now, I can do other too (I've configured git so when I push to github it pushes togitlab too), anyone volunteering to create and maintain a mirror on framagit?
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Cyril
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby Cyril » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:59 pm

yorik wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:34 pm
anyone volunteering to create and maintain a mirror on framagit?
Yes, I'll do it after diner. If I remember well there is a way to automate mirroring. I'll get a look into this.
I blog about HVAC / BIM / Energy : pythoncvc.net. If you like you can follow the RSS feed.
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kkremitzki
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Re: microsoft buys github

Postby kkremitzki » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:10 pm

Another very interesting tool in this regard is https://radicle.xyz/ which uses IPFS (Interplanetary File System) to provide a git repository, issue tracker, and pull request system in a decentralized manner. Still rather early but it has potential.
Like my FreeCAD work? I'd appreciate any level of support via Patreon, Liberapay, or PayPal! Read more about what I do at my blog.