Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

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NormandC
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby NormandC » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:50 am

Not this again. :roll:

All CAD programs, and I mean ALL use the XY, XZ and YZ denominations.
jruiz
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby jruiz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:19 am

NormandC wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:50 am
Not this again. :roll:

All CAD programs, and I mean ALL use the XY, XZ and YZ denominations.
It is not question of denominations, it is question of the effect of using some kind of "levogyre" coordinate system when extruding...
By the way, sometimes paradigms could be revised and adjusted if needed.
I think that adding the option of choosing could help...
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DeepSOIC
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby DeepSOIC » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:28 am

NormandC wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:50 am
Not this again. :roll:
Normand, could you please point us at the previous discussion, so that we can stop wasting energy? ;)
wmayer
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby wmayer » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:41 am

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DeepSOIC
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby DeepSOIC » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:55 am

wmayer wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:41 am
Old discussion:
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15319
Thanks, turns out it wasn't that much of a discussion, and I've changed the code regarding this :mrgreen: but I completely forgot :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Now having reread the discussion, I see there is no problem with porting old models. So it is easy to create an option for the default. But since there are probably very few people who weren't born and grown up in a 3d space where up/down axis is very different from other two, I don't feel like it. So, if someone wants their XZ plane to be ZX plane, create a body, and paste this to py console:

Code: Select all

plane = App.ActiveDocument.XZ_Plane
plane.Placement = App.Placement(App.Vector(), App.Rotation(
    App.Vector(0,0,1),
    App.Vector(1,0,0),
    App.Vector(0,1,0)
))
plane.Label = 'ZX plane (not XZ rubbish =) )'


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NormandC
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby NormandC » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:08 am

jruiz wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:19 am
It is not question of denominations, it is question of the effect of using some kind of "levogyre" coordinate system when extruding...
By the way, sometimes paradigms could be revised and adjusted if needed.
I think that adding the option of choosing could help...
In FreeCAD there is the acronym CAD for Computer-Aided Design. CAD software is overwhelmingly used by designers, architects and engineers. Not by mathematicians. I want to use CAD software, not math software.

I am perfectly comfortable with how the planes are ordered. It makes sense: the top plane (XY), front plane (XZ) and right plane (YZ). In three of the commercial mid-range CAD software I'm familiar with, this is how it works. I'm sure that many more CAD programs behave the same. It is a generally accepted convention. And it works, and nobody that I know of has ever been confused about this.

I don't mind if an option is added for the very minute minority of non-CAD users that is not comfortable with this convention, but don't impose it as default on the rest of us non-mathematicians. I don't care about vector algebra. I want FreeCAD to keep some measure of simple common sense. There are so many things in FreeCAD that confuse end users, IMO this is definitely not one of them.

DeepSOIC wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:39 am
Now if we change to ZX, the sketch would end up in a very unnatural orientation. Renaming them just for sake of math doesn't help, IMO.
Thank you!!!!!
chrisb
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby chrisb » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:17 am

NormandC wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:08 am
I want to use CAD software, not math software.
Usually I disagree if people say that they want to do this or that but not any math. You were more precise by saying you don't want to use math software. FreeCAD relies heavily on math and there is no way to get around this because mathematical laws are universal. But here we are not talking about a mathematical law, it's only a convention. So the question is, why should we change from a CAD to mathematical convention? Is there more behind it than than the arguments we have seen so far? I would not mind if we change things here, but three major systems are a heavy argument to keep it like it is.
jruiz
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby jruiz » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:00 pm

NormandC wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:08 am
In FreeCAD there is the acronym CAD for Computer-Aided Design. CAD software is overwhelmingly used by designers, architects and engineers. Not by mathematicians. I want to use CAD software, not math software.
Well, FreeCAD is a very good software with HUGE potentials. Maybe in its beginnings the acronym "CAD" was enough for indicating what was FreeCAD designed for. But as time passed, we noted that FreeCAD has evolved into a CAx (x = D, E, M), by the way it could be adjusted to be very useful in Sciences too. Maybe the keys be on the implementing options...
NormandC wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:08 am
I don't care about vector algebra. I want FreeCAD to keep some measure of simple common sense. There are so many things in FreeCAD that confuse end users, IMO this is definitely not one of them.
...IMHO, it is question of opinions...
Last edited by jruiz on Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DeepSOIC
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby DeepSOIC » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:56 pm

jruiz wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:00 pm
...IMHO, it is question of opinions...
Well, since this is probably the first time we see someone confused about plane designations in probably more than 5 years, it's a matter of fact. Same questions pop up about every week, and baseplane choice is certainly not one of them.
jruiz
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Re: Part design sketch plane correct order: XY, YZ, ZX

Postby jruiz » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:54 am

DeepSOIC wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:56 pm
jruiz wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:00 pm
...IMHO, it is question of opinions...
Well, since this is probably the first time we see someone confused about plane designations in probably more than 5 years,...
Hehehe, It seems a bit funny to me that you have interpreted this...
For sure there is no confusion at all, just the wishes that other convention be included as an option...
Maybe it was because of my awful English, and the fact that I should be more precise in the text I selected for quoting
NormandC wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:08 am
...FreeCAD to keep some measure of simple common sense...
for just the bold text was my words "...IMHO, it is question of opinions... "
sometimes what is called "common sense" by a group of persons is not exactly "common sense" for other people...