Phew! I am happy to finally see some wise words.yorik wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:46 pmIndeed FreeCAD is hard to learn for newcomers. We all know that. I think the base of vocx's proposal, to separate things that a newcomer needs to learn, from the things one could go after later, is a very good idea. But I would maybe even remove Draft from the core workbenches, I think. I gave a lot of FreeCAD courses and workshops already, and if it's a short one, I go basically over PartDesign, and that's it. MANY people out there only use PartDesign.
Now I'm not sure this requires big changes and big heated discussions.
I share this point of view that it is necessary as much as possible to facilitate the task of newcomers, especially those who have no or little experience in CAD. I think it's good to graduate the FreeCAD discovery by allowing them to get results quickly, but also from hindsight, so tools to understand the possible workflows.
You can have not one, but two workbench selectors. One for the core workbenches, plus auxiliary, and another one for the specialist workbenches and addons. At this point it becomes better to select the workbench from a menu next to Macro, that you can open and expand, instead of using the current selector thingy. The current workbench selector could be used only for displaying purposes, that is, to indicate which workbench is active.
I like that my presentation corresponds to screen pages and that the layout is not bothered by the size of the screen (I am a bit rigid for that!).vocx wrote: ↑Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:07 pmThat website is beautiful. The way it describes the PartDesign workbench is amazing. It must have been a lot of work to set up all the graphics nicely, well done!
I don't know why it couldn't be done in the wiki. It seems to rely on simple links, going forward and backwards in a sequential fashion. The wiki could do that with appropriate navigation boxes. In any case, is your website already mentioned in the wiki? It should be.
Likely there are 30 modules/workbenches available for FreeCAD already. From my point of view ideally all of them would be listed on a single page (alphabetically sorted by default). I likely wouldn't introduce categories. As they are rather meaningless in the end? And can add to complexity and confusion and not to reduce it? Something like this for example should work:vocx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:20 amWhat would take you to decide using a different organization? Like, if the number of workbenches grew to 30 or so? That "for now" tells me you would consider some other type of organization.
More general approach is used and for different purposes. From FreeCAD point of view therefore under for example "user interface" category/tag modules such as selector toolbar and TabBar would be listed. Assembly category/tag would list different workbenches for assembly purposes. Likely there would be a category/tag named "featured" or "available by default". To quickly list modules and their corresponding workbenches available by default. This is rather normal and common sense approach in the end. Grouping similar (area) functionality under the same category/tag in some "software store". After install procedure such categories/tags are not reflected anymore on the NextCloud navigation bar.
I wanted to give some perspective. On why there are that many workbenches in FreeCAD. And what potential problems would likely be discussed if we would have less of them. I am actually not against combining workbenches. But i feel that is more suitable task for the end user. Customization. What i know likely won't happen anytime soon is combining FEM, Path, Transportation, Arch, PartDesign... related features under one workbench and to provide that by default. If you don't want to do that and you still want all the functionality. You need current 30 workbenches. Each i guess being a category of its own. And specialized features grouped underneath it. From new user point of view therefore there is no way around that. You need to understand it. As this is how FreeCAD is currently made.Also, I don't think anybody is talking about combining workbenches...
Exactly. Intentions behind the proposal are likely good. Lets make new user experience better. But the solutions (as proposed) could be introducing more and not less confusion.furti wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:14 amI like the filter approach. But i dont think a "Filter: Core" makes much sense here. What is the point of having "Sketcher" in the list but not "Part" or "PartDesign"? I think this will confuse newcomers even more. Now you can draw 2D geometry but no way to create 3D geometry out of it.
Note that currently we don't have more (except for drawing purposes) modules tackling the same area available by default. And on the Wiki (the discussed workbenches page) we currently only list modules, that are available by default in FreeCAD. Therefore before we start listing all available modules it is rather pointless to try to categorize them. As we would likely end up needing the same amount of categories/tags as workbenches. In addition modules/workbenches are usually named appropriately already. Such as Arch, Draft, Ship, Sketcher, Surface, FEM ... Creating category Architecture and adding Arch workbench in it would therefore likely just add a bit of weight.Maybe "Filter: Mechanical engeneering", "Filter: 2D Construction", "Filter: Architecture" would be better. This will make it possible to also show external workbenches like for example flamingo tools for the Architecture filter.