Feature request for the sketcher-workbench

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abdullah
Posts: 3174
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: Feature request for the sketcher-workbench

Postby abdullah » Sat May 04, 2019 6:52 am

-alex- wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:59 pm
- Automatic deletion of empty sketch (if it has still no any dependency): I mean when creating a sketch, if the user give up and close the sketch without any object inside an empty sketch is created. Maybe the empty sketch could be deleted automaticaly while user is closing it?
I share Chris' opinion. The user created it, so he must know why. Maybe he just wants to close it to do a small change elsewhere and come back. I do not plan to implement this.
-alex- wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:59 pm
- mode "M" key cycles behaviour about distance constraints:
to add distance constraints the user has at least 6 choices for now: 6-distance-tools.png
namely: straight distance, horizontal and vertical distance, radius and diameter distance, anglular distance
In order to add dimensions to a sketch the user has to switch between those 6 options by using shortcuts or go back and forth with mouse to select icones. That is time consuming. IMHO it would be great if a "M" key cycles behaviour similar to the polyline tool could be added. The user would select one of those 6 options then it would be able to switch between distance constraints type when constraining.
I.e. select straight distance (shift+D), add few distances, then press "M" key up to radius mode, then add few radius, then "M", then add few diameters, "M", then add horizontal, and so on.
Sorry, lot of words, my english is just so so...
Some improvements in this line may arrive when I process this:
https://www.freecadweb.org/tracker/view.php?id=1416
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-alex-
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Location: France

Re: Feature request for the sketcher-workbench

Postby -alex- » Sat May 04, 2019 8:55 am

Such kind of behaviour with a all in one distance constraint tool would be great. It would allow an easier workflow about dimensioning in Sketcher WB :)

About the "auto supress" feature when exiting from a new and empty sketch, well, if you guys want not such feature I do not ask for it longer. However I use the software I mentioned above since 20 years for daily work, and I guess this kind of auto-suppress feature is convenient, furthermore for beginners.
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-alex-
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Location: France

Re: Feature request for the sketcher-workbench

Postby -alex- » Sat May 04, 2019 10:27 am

chrisb wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:06 pm
Not true: Placement and Attachment can already contain considerable effort even if the sketch is empty.
Sure, but if the sketch is empty and if the user changes is giving up the sketch, placement and attachment are not useful anymore. Maybe I'm not clear, my bad English sorry, I'm talking about the deletion of a new sketch, during first access,. In this case I guess it is more convenient to auto-suppress the sketch if empty, even if the user wants create a new one again by selecting "sketch" icone, rather than browse the comboview and open or modify the empty sketch created before. You know what I mean?
Can't express better because of my limited English. Now it's up to you guys ;)
chrisb wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:06 pm
Please note that SolidWorks is not a clone of FreeCAD, so they are of course allowed to handle things differently. Do they have the notion of attachment and placement in a similar way?
I've used Solid works since 20 years, so yes I truly know it is not a clone of Freecad.
I really like Freecad, that why I talk about it to my friends and arround me.
I just think there is no taboo to compare some features sometimes. And I guess Solidworks has some good features which deserves to have a look on it.
IMHO to avoid this kind of comparison can lead Freecad through a kind of sectary beaviour. I see that sometimes on this forum, I guess this kind of taboo could be bad for Freecad evolution.
chrisb
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Re: Feature request for the sketcher-workbench

Postby chrisb » Sat May 04, 2019 12:03 pm

Your english is clear enough, probably better than mine, yet I don't want this function. In some rare use cases it might be convenient, but to me it seems that knowing SolidWorks for 20 years you deliberately start creating sketches which you don't need, because you know that on closing an empty sketch will be removed.
In FreeCAD the situation is different and users who have created sketches could rely since years that they will bot be deleted. I know both use cases, but the case where I created a sketch which is completely useless occurred only once as far as I can remember, while I have it more often ("frequently" would be too much) that I realise, that I have forgotten to name a constraint in some other sketch, or a pad doesn't have the right dimension, ...
Of course I could create some dummy geometry in the sketch to prevent it from being deleted, but why should I?

But much more important is to me the idea behind the scenes. What you request is what I call the MacOS/Apple attitude: The system does know better than the user himself what to do. In many cases this is true, but there are some cases where it isn't and then it becomes very hard to even impossible to change the behaviour. For me this is part of the word "Free" in FreeCAD: accept the user's wish and not to pretend to be smarter than a user. The user should be in control of the system and not vice versa.

FreeCAD users are no idiots, and if they create a sketch it should be accepted as such.
Jee-Bee
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Location: Netherlands

Re: Feature request for the sketcher-workbench

Postby Jee-Bee » Sat May 04, 2019 1:59 pm

I prefer the usage of CREO more. Everything you do is on purpose. If you create some thing it is with a reason. If you want to delete something it is with a reason, but it breaks the future(feature based on the deleted feature).
Except flipping extrude/ extrude cut (it is a single feature in CREO what is great!!) CREO NEVER does something of his own. CREO isn't the boss, I'm the boss.
chrisb
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Re: Feature request for the sketcher-workbench

Postby chrisb » Sun May 05, 2019 9:43 am

I just had a wonderful use case which would have convinced me immediately to not automatically delete a sketch:

I have an object with a circular hole somewhere. I want to have sketch aligned and centered to that hole. The current process is:

- create a sketch
- close it
- edit the attachment
- open the sketch for editing.
- ...

Of course this process could be improved, but that's another story.
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-alex-
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Re: Feature request for the sketcher-workbench

Postby -alex- » Mon May 06, 2019 8:47 pm

For sure I have some habits after 20 years of using Solidwork, but please try to forget Solidworks, Appel, my habits, etc... and just consider the reason why I'm aking for this request.
Sometimes the user (me sometimes) is not focused enought or tired, he creates a new sketch then realises that he has selected the wrong plane for attachement (about the general orientation of the part for exemple), or in Part design WB the sketch is not at the best position compare with the others existing features (when adding a new intermediate feature for eg.). For now in both cases the user can close the sketch then modify the settings (attatchement plane or position in the feature tree).
But it is easier, faster to suppress the sketch then create a new one at the right place.
I think this is the logic of Solidworks.
Lack of focussing can happen to everyone, furthuermore when you modelise a lot or if you are tired. I don't think a software which ease the workflow pretends users are idiots.
Close an empty sketch means at 99% that this sketch is not useful and can be deleted. And if you want to close the sketch in order to create some attachement, the sketch should not be necessary be empty I assusme.
Anyway, I guess I will continue to delete empty sketch manualy if the community think it's the most convenient way to do.
chrisb
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Re: Feature request for the sketcher-workbench

Postby chrisb » Mon May 06, 2019 11:05 pm

That's a use case I can fully accept! However, let's keep this the way it is.