Improvements to FreeCAD

[DingBEN]

Update:
Wow! I started to write my response when none were yet on the screen... now we have 4 or five before I got a chance to save mine... LOL

1 - Perhaps your solution is here, scroll downpage: https://all3dp.com/1/best-free-online-cad-software/
-- remember OpenSCAD is practically the same as using Python in FreeCAD
-- many offer the free trap on an ONLINE only scenario... your design and ideas are basically free for grab, stolen.
-- many state FREE, but offer a minimal useless level, anything of usefulness is at cost! Sketchup is one of those [Trimble]!
Sketchup used to be free(Google) until they sold it to their Foogle Friendly Trimble. (beware of these traps)

2- Making it happen with FreeCAD (my preferred solution), no cloud trap unless you sign up for it entirely separately.

3- I second your assessment... yet I want to be constructive and give FreeCAD the best chance.
This project stands the opportunity to eventually become a true open source free product that provides advanced features as found in commercial counterparts. The irony, these commercial versions were paid by all the GOYim who beg to see FreeCAD do them justice.

But FreeCAD is a mess: I am indeed itching to bull-right-in and demand to take things in hand and help provide remedy.
But you know the good ole boys moderators are going to fret and want to continue to apply their control and make things wayyyyyy too hard!
So, the better solution is for me to produce the improved structure on my own separate local installation and bring it up to the rest of the crowd once I think it is at a commensurate level.

-- Note: I don't know how FreeCAD is structured to remain open source and free. [ though the licensing agreement promises no nasty surprises ]
One certain thing, FreeCAD seems a boat with poor sail management.
No matter if free a project needs management. (self management being the dream)

4- so... how to progress in this improvement attempt!?
PROBLEM: this is a huge undertaking that will take time, anyone executing this will need help from the various superusers, and seasoned individuals who have been at it more than the average noob.
Key individuals involved in this effort should go thru various meetings and perform an analysis to lay out the basic overall plan.
A clear list of what will survive(intact or to be integrated in its new dwelling) or die a sudden death.

GET THE DOCs 'right'
One first thought approach I see is to produce clear simple steps to accomplish a task, REMOVING the MESSY HEAVY UNYIELDING RIDICULOUS LAME LENGTHY PROSAIC APPROACH. (in other words revamp the instructions(documentation)... the current one is TOTAL CRAP! It's like every monkey in the jungle went in with its own version of ruckus-look-at-me. Yet much of it is work done that is valid only in need of reduced conciseness.

The 'working with this', 'working with that', become 'this', 'that'(keywords) ALPHABETICALtopical grouping/tagging/(dammit!).

As per these clear simple steps, match a complete exact video to the documented task, missing NOT one key stroke/move.
Most videos I have gone thru are PATHETIC. Do allow pathetic videos in the superfluous pathetic section, NOT in the main documentation stream.

REMOVE THE LOCAL HELP MODULE
The pretext listed that when one does not have online access, help is still available locally! (CROCK OF SHITE thinking)
Maintaining 2 separate areas is SENSELESS, double work, and great risk of out of sync failure, or lag. (ironically, the local help warns of lagging horribly, if not wrong altogether!)

To get the software, one must go online to begin with... why not pair the install download with a download of the HTML(online) help, that way the help is in one place... and available OFF and ONLINE! Make the help Modular so that any updated or new modules(pages) can be downloaded when found in the update bucket.

CLEAN UP THE FORUM
I see moderators trying to teach every Joeblow what they should have done or not, pointing to the 'read-this-first-before-you-post', etc...
LAME LAME LAME approach!!!

Moderators should employ their time correcting NOT TELLING others to correct themselves!
a copy of the corrected post and link sent to the posting party, with an auto msg that states to structure one's post per the corrected pattern.

First correction should be to make sure the title of the post is CORRECTLY MINIMALLY WORDED AND MASTER, minor keyed, ...
[ do not list 'fail' or not working, ... we know it's an issue, a failure by its presence alone ]

so... NOT: I did this with my little brother and we turned to the left and the flowers were beautiful, but the river was muddy, and then we saw a failure in constraints <- now we know it's about 'constraints'
instead...
or: constraints, howto [pinned at top]
or: constraints, bug[unconfirmed], [bug short keyed wording]... change to [confirmed when so assessed, or fixed, ...]
or: constraints, buttons-access discussion, ...
or: constraints, delete
or: constraints, read-only, expecting edit,...

SORT the forum per these keyed titles, that way ALL about constraints will sort grouped...
NO NEED TO TELL a user to go read instructions before posting...
if the issue the user seeks is not showing Duh! HHHelp! a new post is of the order.

TAG the entries for further filtering, etc...

STOP MAKING stOOpid BUCKETS that must be remembered!!!
-Every time you have to state what is what for what and only do this this way, bad-bad-bad-forum-user... don't-you-know-how-to-follow-rules!?
YOU FAIL!
...instead place the item/issue where it intuitively belongs...
KEYED entries and TAGs allow this to be automatic, no need for a hand-holding-moderator to show you the path at each street corner.

- each issue as its discussion, let that discussion be with that topic instead of being lost in a giant bucket of discussions!!!

FAQ is an excuse for an incomplete section somewhere in the docs.

PLACE all FAQs in their appropriate intuitive bucket so that the item is found in its alphabetic context without guess as to where it might be!
If you insist on making it a FAQ, use a FAQ tag on it.
and following the same self supporting structure...
...the glossary can be embedded in all its separate entries, and drawn as a dictionary via a 'GLOSS' TAG.
...that way the entries drive the glossary and stay in sync, no dropping the ball, nor faulty reconciliations.

...hope you get the idea... with these few examples
GET THE DOCs 'right' - *** end ***


*** SOFTWARE OPERATION:
UI(User Interface) ...ONE EXAMPLE toolbars
All CAD systems are button intensive... buttons/triggers while they are designed to be a source of speed can take a major piece of the screen real-estate... see it, click it! FFFFFFAIL!!!(see just below)
- now you need a toolbar positioning manager...and the toolbars land on the screen at near random positioning, hardly ever the same configuration even though they were arranged manually... wtb! some force a packed left justification, others remain the previous arranged location, ... are you kidding!?

When the forest gets too thick, you spend more time searching and aiming than you spend on your progress.
Eventually you find yourself working in a pigeon hole surface view... wow! people... gain a bit of speed at the cost of major losses elsewhere!!!
Your speed gain flatly negated in the end.

INSTEAD: A thin line at the top of screen, to the right on the Main Menu drop downs line(File, Edit, View, ...) could have a simple narrowed list of button BUCKETS(such as constraints, transforms, translates, action-b, ...) and when hovering one a popup or dropdown of all the constraints buttons(for example) centers on the screen with pick(click)/pin/unpin/v-h/move/Close/...
The crucial real-estate saving is huge, we now can work on a maximum surface! ...and more than anything else the clicking work flow is now uniform for any functionality!

other blunders - Right off the bat in FreeCAD you are faced with the following issues:

- TOO MUCH ON THE PLATE, it seems that too much is on the plate, trying to get this software to grab so much in width that the vertical development suffers from it (can be due to a weak coordination process)

- NAVIGATION USER EXPERIENCE: matters little where one navigates, it is one tripping hole after another (frankly, horrible)

GRID: for instance the GRID is problematic... one finds [https://www.freecadweb.org/tracker/view ... 5#bugnotes] the date of last update is years back, and the bug issue name is not even mentioned...!?

- BASICS: NO MATTER THE LEVEL OF THIS development, it is outrageous that the basics are buggy... how can it not be made sure that the GRID(s) on a CAD/CAM/... software is easy to deal with, and 100% bug free! It's like a bad door step where one is made to trip upon entry!

- BUGGY: in general, the software is very buggy - I am constantly running into trip/holes/and stones, and blatant misbehaving.

- the GUI is a spaghetti pile, either a choice box must appear to select the desired point, or handles attached to each item

- color of an item should always be accessible directly rather than to have to take repeated long trips to a near useless interface that always comes to the screen in a pigeon hole size that must be resized each time, and good luck finding the item in the list...
a right-click contextual dialog can gather the context and bring up the direct option

- client help (mentioned above, should disappear and be replaced by the ONLY browser driven version)
but here are some of its current bugs
- has zooming buttons that fail to enlarge/reduce the text size(only the topics lines are affected... makes the help useless, impossible to read.
- lags horribly behind the online help, and creates double work for the developers using the pretext that it is there when online help is not accessible WOW! bad thinking... bad bad... for one to get the software one must go online to download it, it is at that point that an html based help(the online one) can also be downloaded... same help no lag, no double takes, no out of sync risk, ...

- the cardinal points vane at the bottom right corner of the screen is INVISIBLE SHITE... stop coding for 20/20 20 year old bucks... most of the knowledgeable people who want to use these tools are seasoned older individuals who wear glasses!

- the user interface fails to be intuitive, one must remember what some other mind visualized and implemented
- presenting the next step to take at the moment one starts navigating, is like a person giving directions to a driver at the last second... oh! turn left here,...
- one should give land marks and warn of incoming turns way ahead of time...
- GPS sometimes is too late, so one must continue on and do a double take to make the turn to avoid sudden moves that are accidents waiting to happen!
Every time programmers try to think for the user and usher the flow for the user... it's a mistake and a constant myriad of retakes, and stumbling garbage.
Leave the user thinking to the user, just implement your stuff intuitively so the user has no difficulty finding the path, without a backseat programmer.

- if a reload of a module, or a restart, or combination are needed when a preference, or customization is applied, the user should be flagged upon that change, NOT A FREAKING NOTE BURIED IN 100s of pages of help!?!? - that is the worst when it comes to productivity

The toolbar customizing tool, praised to be the best (buried in the docs) is lacking severely. I surely do not want to see its NO.2 cousin.
- When on screen the MAIN MENU(File, Edit, view, ...) disappears but is still accessible (that would be a bug)
- Why is my generic tool bar I created and need almost everywhere, not in the list of toolbars!?
- Why must I create that toolbar over and over to have it show where I need it!?

ok... nuff said, based on the responses to this post, I will decide whether I want to invest my time...

*** SOFTWARE OPERATION: - *** end ***

Note: I had checked out FreeCAD some time ago and given up... this time 'round I see much more potential then years ago.

[chrisb]

You are right in many aspects, but you are very wrong in one point: Your post sounds as if others should change FreeCAD and the docs according to your suggestions. I would like to see more often that you include yourself in the people being responsible. FreeCAD is a community project.

Concerning the UI I see many newbies whining that this or that is not possible. It seems they think that all failures are due to UI issues, while learning parametric 3D modeling is inherently difficult. I would guess that with a one or two weeks training course of 8 hours a day the situation would be very different - and that's how the big professional systems are introduced.

[HarryGeier]

@dingben

I second chrisb´s comment. I just wanted to add, i can´t get the point where your lengthy post fit´s into the basic question.

The person asking wants us to tell him what is better than FreeCAD.
Talking about a free solution: NOTHING , as what he wants to create IS complex Stuff
Talking about a commercial solution: Mostly NOTHING ( for the lonely one who just wants a quick and easy approach )

Why?? Any 3D CAD System has a learning curve .
There are 2 Scenarios:
Easy .. say like tinkercad.. -> unusable as you come to unsolvable construction problems very fast
Complex ... say Solidworks .. -> unusable as the learning curve is not very easier , and that at a 10K$++ Level

Thus.. Whatever he looks at.. he MUST LEARN IT and cope with limitations or an empty wallet. FreeCAD takes longer to learn..sure, it has glitches..sure.. but at least he gets the beast and most help for FREE

[chrisb]

Nice comprehension from someone who knows at least one the big pay systems.

[Mark Szlazak]

Nice! Thank you. I agree.

[triplus]

ok... nuff said, based on the responses to this post, I will decide whether I want to invest my time...

Basically any will do. You made a comprehensive list and quickly looking at it i see that potential tasks range from novice to expert knowledge needed. Read the list again and select the area that you feel you would like to work on and after try to make things happen. When you will have something to share, open a dedicated forum thread and present your proposal. Don't forget to listen to the feedback and try to acknowledge some. As that will likely result in FreeCAD becoming more comfortable for more people.

P.S. As for alternatives to FreeCAD. For sure there is a plethora of options out there. Just select the one that suits you the best. The number of people selecting FreeCAD, as their preferred choice, well that is growing over the years and hence we must be doing something right. In addition, if somebody has such a long and in-depth list, on areas that FreeCAD could improve, usually there is a list just as long, on where it excels.

[DingBEN]

well well, the standard like it or lump it style responses interlaced with valid points, and typical partial failed comprehension.
If you have read my post, I indeed mentioned that I expect the standard obstacle salvos from the CREW(here on your name to stick!).
...and lets not forget the typical butt hurt juvenile reBUTTals that accomplish NOTHING!

Not interested to point who whom, only what is of interest to improve.

1. clearly, I stated that it will take a team effort (stating I want it my way is moderator/lead geek drunkenness)

2. clearly, though I left links(choices) AT THE TOP, to other potential solutions be the poster cannot wait for FreeCAD to come up to par,
I stated that I am for making FreeCAD, the solution.
...Note: The suggested old-versions of Sketchup are very limited up to version 8 while current version is 16 or 17... so nothing you may have created in older than 8 will load.

3. Whining about a lengthy post, is about the most lame excuse to prevail in discussion.
The lengthy post is a mere drop in the bucket, only an example of the blatant failures, most of which can be rectified quickly.
A proper analysis will dwarf this SHORT EXEMPLIFYING POST!
Here is another example of failure!:
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2264
- move seprate sections in the 'do this before you post' to their respective locations
- include a header on each post/reply that states to clip the About and place it HERE
disallow save until About is clipped in (can be on initial post only)
- [ move the most Commonly Asked Questions(FAQ!?!?) to their proper intuitive location
wtb!!! are you kidding!? another other CAQ FAQ babble lost in space!! ]

4. Based on my short assessment, I can see why the learning curve is so steep...
- For one, parroting the phrase itself as if one must live with mediocrity and dare not be caught criticizing it!!!
- MASSIVE failure in the documentation structure and content and organization.

5. Now that I have partially created my first work in FreeCAD, I can see that the improvement necessary not only will not take years, but save years in future development. (Let's parrot the NASTY WIN/WIN lame corporate jargon here, why not!)
Better(and best), it will reduce the drop-out level in those who visit FreeCAD, the base will grow much faster.

so, now that you have had your chance to vent your first phart, why not look about to find people who can start a project to set this train on strong tracks...

as for my part, I am not entirely sure...
Yet I know what I see that would improve things rapidly(once hashed in some preliminary meetings) in itself is improvement.
Thus formalizing only the few points I make in these few posts onto a project list is a start and a valuable contribution.

CREW! you would know best at this time as to which human resource is best assigned to laying out the plan.
Let's avoid all the cry-baby talk as to what is free, or excels, or wateva... and concentrate on cleaning up the GARBAGE.

Once that initial list is produced... and consequently implemented... things should fly forward with nominal acceleration.

...then we can shoot for warp-speed.

TIME to step up and offer your services to the battle:
The initial document, the project plan... NOT all the git-hub maze of pull requests etc... save that for later.

Me, DingBEN: tell me where to start this list and I will compile all the above mentioned in a living startup doc.
you, doc leader ???:
another you, programmer ???:
...

[triplus]

You have likely misunderstood me a bit, as i said i am rather impressed by the length of the list and on the in-depth approach you took. As that leads me to believe, you took the time and got to know FreeCAD rather good. And are prepared to invest effort in improving things.

As for things like FreeCAD info. Yes, basically i agree with you on that, did have invested a lot of effort in trying to make this procedure more respectful. And to be honest, lately things have improved substantially. Are you sure this is still an ongoing issue or is this the impression you got a few years back?

As for more automation, like replacing the effort with some algorithm. Maybe when AI gets a whole lot better at this. For now it still takes real people and real effort and usually personal approach is a must. To manage this in a good way. At some point likely the influx of all new people choosing FreeeCAD will make this a bit harder. This has already become a challenge. Therefore new people interested in helping out, here on the forum, providing support, that is much appreciated.

As for the documentation. Whenever i was searching for clues, FreeCAD documentation actually usually did provide a valuable input. Therefore are you sure it is all that bad ATM? Maybe on the developers side, there things are lacking a bit ATM, when it comes to documentation. Anyway, if you would like to improve the documentation, decide what you would like to improve, use the "sandbox approach", basically you create a WIP version of the changes and after open a thread in Wiki forum subsection. To get more feedback from other people. Note that sometimes "strong opinions" could emerge. As a new contributor therefore best if you don't perceive that as a personal attack. Unless it is just that. In that case feel free to disregard it, as you are not obliged to put up with that. And basically the same applies to you too.

[NormandC]

If you have read my post, I indeed mentioned that I expect the standard obstacle salvos from the CREW(here on your name to stick!).
...and lets not forget the typical butt hurt juvenile reBUTTals that accomplish NOTHING!

And what do you expect when you basically tell us that the software is crap, the documentation is crap and the forum is crap... Then you say you'll base your eventual involvement (posing yourself as our saviour) on our responses to your abuse? There's a way to provide helpful feedback, even hard and blunt, and that's not it. Yours is a sure way to antagonize people, and it was certainly intended as such. That's an early cop out if I haven't seen one.

I've seen a lot of newcomers like you over the years on this forum. Big on talk and recommendations and promises. We never see them again after a few posts, no matter the reception they get.

[PrzemoF]

Just a reminder: we're on a technical forum and please keep the discussion at a proper level. Talking about 20 different problems in one post doesn't help. Also topic is far away from the original post. Start your own topic if you feel you have something important to share.