Realthunders work

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drmacro
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by drmacro »

LHC wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:42 pm Yup - another relative newcomer here patiently waiting for realthunders work to appear in the main branch. I'm in the camp of waiting rather than start to do real work in the RT branch for all the reasons that have been stated. But it's a painful wait :lol:

I have been told that the RT branch also uses some code that may not meet the open source license of the main branch and might end up being an add on at best.

In any case, the topo issue is starting to be a well publicized thing and hopefully the fix will be merged soon. Just yesterday I came across this video. The fellows explanation of just what the topo issue is was one of the better ones I have seen for a newcomer.

https://youtu.be/QSsVFu929jo

I do miss the productivity I had with Fusion 360.....but I'm never going back to that miserable Autodesk !
Well, he does describe the issue well.

But, says he's not there to moan and complain...then proceeds to do just that. Proclaiming FreeCAD to be fundamentally broken.
To me that would imply no users can do any useful work with the the tool as it stands. But, this is proven not to be the case by...well, users all over the world.

Should the TNP issue be fixed? A resounding yes. (If for no other reason than many are sick of hearing about it... 8-) )

To me, there is far to much energy focused on the "issue".

If, like many of us, a user, new or old, can't help fix it, their focus should be on how to use the tool effectively, as it stands, warts and all.

So, learning a few techniques that will make a model more stable and sustainable (with or without TNP) and then getting on with what you want to do, just seems to be where the focus of the current user should be. If those techniques are too onerous, then use the RT branch.

When someone says: "well, to model in FreeCAD you need to do these things to avoid this or that... and to do that operation you need to do it this way..." then the response for me is "noted, that's how I'll do it." That's how to be effective with the tool. The response: "Well, that's not how it works in other software..." is simply not productive. (unless, like RT, you fire up your IDE and change it.)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by LHC »

Yes I was somewhat amused by that saying he's not going to moan and then launches into moaning - haha. And I'm with you on getting on with it. That's what I've been doing - BUT - the day is coming for me when I want to create a bunch of tech draw sheets for a woodworking project and that's going to have me enter the house of pain with the topo. By the time I get to my ultimate goal of having a small cnc and using the path workbench I suspect it will be solved.

I have a real feeling that FC will start to explode with new users once the issue is solved. Then again, maybe they will migrate to the next issue that's not like cad system xyz ....
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by GeneFC »

LHC wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:55 pm the day is coming for me when I want to create a bunch of tech draw sheets for a woodworking project and that's going to have me enter the house of pain with the topo.
Why???

I do metalworking rather than woodworking for the most part. I use mainstream FreeCAD exclusively, and I have not seen a TNP problem for a long time.

Yes, it takes discipline, but it is certainly possible.

Can you design an automobile or a space shuttle? Probably not, but most individual users can use FreeCAD for almost anything they can build.

I am not trying to take anything from the RT work. There is a lot of good stuff there in addition to TNP. But there is no need to obsess about it.

That video and the comments were just the typical whining seen everywhere when something is not utterly simple.

(I tried Fusion for a couple of weeks a while back and gave up in disgust. No CAD program is intuitive or easy.)

Gene
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by LHC »

Your comments are encouraging and perhaps when I get to the tech draw and path workbenches I will have no issues. I'm plenty busy with other sections of FC at the moment anyway, and I'm not obsessing over it, but it is my understanding that those workbenches depend on referencing generated geometry, and unless there's tricks I am not aware of they will cause me problems. Some of my workflows (correct or not) end up having me iterate the design even at very late stages.

As for Fusion - it took me a lot longer than 2 weeks to even start to become aware of things, and much longer than that to actually do something. Maybe 6 months or so - and I was off to the races after that. I'm coming up on 10 months with FreeCad now and I can do some simple models, bu nowhere near what I could do with Fusion in that time. Everyone is different I guess. I have seen references to people picking up FreeCad in a matter of weeks and being super productive, but alas I am not one of them......
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by GeneFC »

I use the Path WB for everything, and I seldom use Tech Draw since I am my own customer. The transfer from computer to shop is through a g-code file. I do not believe there are any particular problems moving from the FC model to either of those "output" WBs, although each certainly requires some skill to practice well.

Sorry, I did not intend to say that you were "obsessing". :oops:

FreeCAD today is vastly improved over what is was just a few years ago, but the number of "obsessors" (is that a word?) has increased 10X or more. That may be good in a way, since it implies that a lot more folks are looking today.

The bottom line for my comments is don't wait for perfection. It is likely that FreeCAD can serve you very well right now.

Gene
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by LHC »

I agree- the more whiners and complainers does mean more people are downloading and trying out FC. I'm not sure if there is any way to estimate how many users there are but at the bottom of the forum it looks like there about 36,000 that are in the forum. I read somewhere that Fusion 360 has about 675,000 users. The more Autocad pisses off the users there we may see a LOT more people climbing aboard the Freecad train :D
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ragohix769
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by ragohix769 »

LHC wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:42 pm https://youtu.be/QSsVFu929jo
I do miss the productivity I had with Fusion 360.....but I'm never going back to that miserable Autodesk !
The description of the TNP, it's really clear in the video. Of course FC it's not "broken" because of TNP, but the exageration here is, IMHO, a good sign and a *real* interest (growing) to have FC evolve like other big multimedia OSS like Ardour, Blender, etc etc. and support not only people that use CAD as hobby, but real work and professional people. Because, IMHO, if FC will be used by pros or for some real business (by some company, even better), anyone will deserve respect and right attention to the project rather then ranting about "it's not like Fusion360", "it's cute but I will not learn it because it limited by TNP". So TNP, even if there is some serious methods to workaround and/to avoid or reduce it, it's at least a "stain" (or a stigma, or a problem/limitation of the SW, name it as you want) for new users that have to chose a CAD to learn (that need a lot of efforts) and can reduce the possibilities to grow and evolve. Just my 2 cents of course.
Last edited by ragohix769 on Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by IPowIPi »

I wouldn't call new users whiners and complainers. I think most people trying FreeCAD would much prefer to like it than not to like it - simply because it would be super convenient to have an open source program one can rely on, that is here to stay, where one isn't at the mercy of company sales and product placement strategies.
On the one side I think even for newcomers it can be super helpful to have a good understanding about the TNP (at least as long as it exists), because this knowledge takes a lot of panic out of the situation when it actually happens. To know that the model hasn't randomly imploded (as it might look like on first sight) but that there is a systematic reason behind this and that there is a realistic chance to get everything back on track with reasonable effort without resorting to a backup (or restarting from scratch).
On the other side it appears that many hear about the problem (actually hard to overlook it when googling for opinions about FreeCAD) but don't grasp it deeply enough to understand which implications this actually has. It is more kind of a general red flag of the sort "models will implode sooner or later, not worth looking into". And honestly, it makes some pretty intuitive workflows impractical, so even some who do understand the implications might come to the conclusion that this doesn't work for them yet. Which is sad, particularly as many don't bother to get a second impression of something they have ruled out once.
So I wouldn't (only) count interest (which is currently really high) but (more) conversion rate of people who take a deeper look and stay.

Long story short, getting rid of the red flag (even if it isn't considered as too severe by the experts as they can easily work around it) would imho help a lot! So fingers crossed that the expert FreeCAD devs find some time. Think some time off here and there is well deserved and healthy. It's more about the prios when they are back on track, just really hope it's not deferred again. Then things look imho quite promising!
(P.S.: Had a glimpse at the currently open related pull request - hats off to the expert devs who have/will be reviewing this, certainly a big task that takes lots of effort and indepth knowledge!)
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by GeneFC »

IPowIPi wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:55 pm I wouldn't call new users whiners and complainers.
I did not state my concern very well.

The problem is not the complaining, but rather the very common corollary that FreeCAD is not perfect and therefore is not suitable for use. That was certainly the theme of the referenced video and many of the comments.

My message is learn FreeCAD, quirks and all. Use it. The doubters might be surprised at what can be accomplished.

Gene
drmacro
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Re: Realthunders work

Post by drmacro »

GeneFC wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:36 pm ...

My message is learn FreeCAD, quirks and all. Use it. The doubters might be surprised at what can be accomplished.
...
Can quote this?

Very succinct and right on target. Bravo. :!:
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
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