Unknown Bug, Variables?

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Outsourced
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:07 am

Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by Outsourced »

Hello FC
Couldn't up load the file to forum -Says File too big,available on Google Drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o8o9ik ... sp=sharing

OS: Windows 10 Version 2009
Word size of OS: 64-bit
Word size of FreeCAD: 64-bit
Version: 0.19.24291 (Git)
Build type: Release
Branch: releases/FreeCAD-0-19
Hash: 7b5e18a0759de778b74d3a5c17eba9cb815035ac
Python version: 3.8.6+
Qt version: 5.15.2
Coin version: 4.0.1
OCC version: 7.5.0
Locale: English/Australia (en_AU)

I was hoping to put together a business presentation on this device, the error is towards the end, but with that being said I tried to reproduce items with multiple fails (I lost count) So the video didn't quite turn out the way I hoped.
https://youtu.be/DYi1c-chU0s
chrisb
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Re: Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by chrisb »

Remarks and questions:
- The model shows malformed constraints when opened in 0.20.
- It shows an error in the origin of "Part"
- Using Std_Part is redundant, if only one body is inside
- From outside of a body you should not use references to things inside. Reference the whole body instead.

- At 0.56 of the video you show a graphic. Not being a native speaker, I nevertheless think it should say "more" instead of "moare"

The diagram looks scientific, can you tell us more about the research behind it?
- What is a "fact" in this context?
- What do the facts cover? Enabling a user to create things like the linked model or becoming a "Master of all workbenches"?
- How did you count the 9000 facts?
- Is 9000 much compared to others?
- Do the facts include common knowledge such as how to use menus, icons, input fields, etc.?
- How do you measure the steepness of the learning curve?

I ask, because I have the feeling that there are only a few hundred facts in my hopefully sort of exhaustive sketcher lecture. Adding some hundred for general handling and some hundred more for the features, I have the feeling that it needs about 1000 facts for enabling a user to create decent models using PartDesign.
Lets add 1000 more for Part and another 1000 for Draft workbench I am still at a third of your estimate.

Knowing more about the facts could also be the basis for some kind of FreeCAD certificate, which has been discussed sometimes here in the forum, so knowing more about it, could be quite interesting.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
Outsourced
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:07 am

Re: Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by Outsourced »

Chrisb,
I apologise if you took offense at the the video - if the there was labelling on all the icons (or at the least a standardised Grouping label) it wouldn't feel so hard to learn the functions of so many pictures. Unfortunately the Modern UI Plugin does strange things to my plugin dropdown its too much change too soon.(There's a reason why every other Cad package has a standardised UI similar to every other CAD package - its called operator poaching). The Morden ui would be great if you didn't loss so much modelling real estate, IE be able to control what section gets text, Geometries & Constraints for example are intro level knowledge & is just a massive waste of space!
How many workbench's are there?
On my system Qty 35
On the Part Menu alone I have 64 Icons, considering you can only do some things in Part which is not backwards compatible with Part design, Qty 35 facts to learn ^1.5 (that's fair)
Bring it to qty 512
Each 1 of the pictures has at least 3 operations (that is grossly under quoted - but lets just work with the 3 main work plains)
So not including animation or exporting options 35*512*3 = 53,790 Facts to learn!
Thanks for the review on the file I try importing the file into another instance of the project & cont. with the video, Like I said it didn't turn out like I wanted
Last edited by Outsourced on Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
drmacro
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Re: Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by drmacro »

Outsourced wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:22 pm ...
The problem is there is, indeed, a lot to be learned.

Unfortunately, there is little to do but practice, practice, ask questions to learn, practice, practice ask more, practice more. And, it takes lots of hours to become proficient and years to become expert.

It is far more than learning a few commands or icons (what I believe you are referring to as "facts")
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
chrisb
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Re: Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by chrisb »

Outsourced wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:22 pm I apologise if you took offense at the the video
I didn't take any offence.
How many workbench's are there?
On my system Qty 35
On the Part Menu alone I have 64 Icons, considering you can only do some things in Part which is not backwards compatible with Part design, Qty 35 facts to learn ^1.5 (that's fair)
Bring it to qty 512
Each 1 of the pictures has at least 3 operations (that is grossly under quoted - but lets just work with the 3 main work plains)
So not including animation or exporting options 35*512*3 = 53,790 Facts to learn!
What if you had taken Image workbench as a reference? It has 3 Icons :? .

To give this a slightly more rational basis I have counted the icons in the source code: 1741. It should be made clear, that the facts you are referring to, are those of the whole FreeCAD program (without addons). This includes everything from Arch to FEM, from Inspection to Path. That's why I asked for camparable programs.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
Outsourced
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Re: Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by Outsourced »

This is where I am now.
I'm now in the Part Design WB. And the subtractive helix isn't playing ball.
So close thou, its got to be one of these multiple variables. I'm not counting them.
https://youtu.be/yZooqg_ww3E
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onekk
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Re: Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by onekk »

I think that approach could be not the most "right".

If you are making some comparison, you have to make it with a similar program, and from what I know there are no similar program around that resemble FreeCAD.

That said, standardized way of doing things, not ever are "best way" or "most easy" simply "most used" or "most teached", or "the ones you are accustomed to".

From what I know many CAD have no CAM program "integrated", nor "FEM", nor "Ship WorkBench", and maybe even no a "Mesh WB" too, only to name some of them.

Speaking of "Assembly" you have at leaste three "flavours" of Assembly WB so you have to make some choice, or use all of them to make things based on their "strength".

Plus in FreeCAD you could model same thing using "many ways", you could use Part WB and PartDesign WB to make very similar things, or to start from a Sketch or a Draft and then evolve to a Solid.

Said so see:

https://dev.opencascade.org/about/projects_and_products

To have a rough idea of the power you are using when using FreeCAD, and note the last thing, you are using all these horsepower for Free.

So every comparison is unfair, and most of them are biased from "other scopes" like make some assumptions on the "superiority of a program over another", but there is no program like FreeCAD.

The Fact that many paid software are turning into some Pay per use programs, and many people come here to find an alternative, is the most real fact about FreeCAD.

Indeed the learning curve is always "not flat", as simply you are using a "very complex program" and you have to learn it "by grades", a example I usually make my models using scripting, so I use GUI only to see things, and maybe load and export something, so I have used perhaps 15% of the WB FreeCAD is offering.

And after two months of using FreeCAD I have been able to put together a small WB to import files from another CAM program, I have some accounting background and some work a auto repairman (family business) so I'm for sure not an "expert" nor a "programmer".

Regards

Carlo D.
GitHub page: https://github.com/onekk/freecad-doc.
- In deep articles on FreeCAD.
- Learning how to model with scripting.
- Various other stuffs.

Blog: https://okkmkblog.wordpress.com/
user1234
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Re: Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by user1234 »

The video and the claim can not be taken serous.

How many self intersection and unnecessary operation to you want?
Yes !!!
Outsourced
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Re: Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by Outsourced »

Hello FC,
Thankyou for your critiques & replies. Yes I concur that my abilities where mostly to blame yesterday. I really didn't have an understanding of a lot of things namely which plane to assign to which sketch, (Other Cad system baby you thru this process).

Since then I have drawn this item - no less than 15 times (improving considerable). Including but not limited to -1. All part sketches on Part origin, 2. All sketches on individual Body origin & 3. this one with Body on Part origin & Subtractive Helix on Body origin.

Every time I have received a varying degree of results, but all have returned errors. I am presenting now another video & file of what I believe to be the most logical way to assign planes & complete this part, however I am still getting errors?

File is on my drive https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fYuy-X ... sp=sharing
Video is (Sped up for your comfort):https://youtu.be/Ndf38tU9F8sFR
Additional Critiques appreciated
chrisb
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Re: Unknown Bug, Variables?

Post by chrisb »

Outsourced wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:13 pm Additional Critiques appreciated
If this is true, then you should either follow the recommendations, or explain why you don't.

Concerning the video: following the recommendations given in the videos subforum you should start with showing the version of your program.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
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