If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Have some feature requests, feedback, cool stuff to share, or want to know where FreeCAD is going? This is the place.
Forum rules
Be nice to others! Read the FreeCAD code of conduct!
chrisb
Veteran
Posts: 53920
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by chrisb »

wmayer wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:28 pm Regular sketch points are only shown when editing a sketch but will disappear as soon as you close it because they are not considered for the sketch shape.
When Abdullah implemented real points this behaviour was discussed here: It is indeed inconsistent that points are always created as construction geometry. But they can then be switched to real geometry which exists also outside of sketcher.
That decision was made, because 1) it was the former behaviour and 2) to model real points in a sketch seems to be a rather rare use case.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
chrisb
Veteran
Posts: 53920
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by chrisb »

I attach a file containing a sketch with real points
Attachments
realPoints.FCStd
(3.76 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
SnipScreenshot-3663c8.png
SnipScreenshot-3663c8.png (1.97 KiB) Viewed 967 times
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
wmayer
Founder
Posts: 20243
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:32 am
Contact:

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by wmayer »

chrisb wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:05 am When Abdullah implemented real points this behaviour was discussed here: It is indeed inconsistent that points are always created as construction geometry. But they can then be switched to real geometry which exists also outside of sketcher.
OK, I didn't know that points are construction geometry at creation time. Then everything is fine.
User avatar
Shalmeneser
Veteran
Posts: 9474
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:04 am
Location: Fr

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by Shalmeneser »

I use 'normal' points in a sketch only for :
* external geometry later
* apex in a Sweep loft

[Edit : Sweep -> Loft :roll: Thks Chrisb]
Last edited by Shalmeneser on Mon May 16, 2022 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chrisb
Veteran
Posts: 53920
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:14 am

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by chrisb »

Shalmeneser wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:25 am I use 'normal' points in a sketch only for :
They can be quite useful for an endpoint of a loft too.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
drmacro
Veteran
Posts: 8865
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:35 pm

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by drmacro »

Hmm...there were additions made that would allow the point to be used as a single point to Pad to. (As one could do in Part extrude).

Not sure where that fits in this discussion...

There was also a time when a point, in "not construction" mode, and inside a closed shape in a sketch would not Pad, but, if outside the shape, would.

These are just random thoughts... :mrgreen:
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
User avatar
adrianinsaval
Veteran
Posts: 5541
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:15 pm

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by adrianinsaval »

chrisb wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:05 am 2) to model real points in a sketch seems to be a rather rare use case.
this might need to be revised if points are to be used in the hole feature, I'm not sure what is the best way of doing this but a method to easily create "real" points would be nice.
PS: what even is the correct term for non construction geometry? defining geometry perhaps?
drmacro
Veteran
Posts: 8865
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:35 pm

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by drmacro »

adrianinsaval wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:43 pm ...PS: what even is the correct term for non construction geometry? defining geometry perhaps?
I've had this thought as well. 8-)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."
User avatar
adrianinsaval
Veteran
Posts: 5541
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:15 pm

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by adrianinsaval »

bambuko wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:31 am so:
1 - create sketch with just points > use hole tool > confirm points as a source > use hole tool as it is at the moment
2 - create sketch with just dimensioned circles > use hole tool > select "circles" as source > use hole tool with circle diameter as a hole diameter

and everybody is happy (apart from confused ones :lol: :mrgreen: )
there are some problems with this, first the backwards compatibility problem, it would be necessary to have a property to choose if you want to use the sketch given dimensions or the hole tool given dimension and the property has to default to using the hole tool dimension or have a function to assign the behavior to the objects that don't have that property, otherwise all old models will break.
Second, what about a sketch that has circles and points in it?
Third, what about when the circles in the sketch have different sizes? I'm not sure if defining different sized holes in the same feature is a good idea so if it is even implemented I think it should default to the old behavior.
IMO it's better to keep things simple and keep the hole tool working as it does right now but add the possibility of defining the hole center with points.
User avatar
bambuko
Veteran
Posts: 2161
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: UK, England, North Devon

Re: If the hole tool allows to set a diameter, why using a sketch with just a point does not work?

Post by bambuko »

adrianinsaval wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 2:04 pm ...there are some problems with this...
I am not claiming I have fully thought it through...
quite prepared to discover that it was a brain fart :lol:
I am using Link branch and Assembly3
you can also download ... and try it here
excellent Assembly3 tutorials here
Post Reply