Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

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adrianinsaval
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by adrianinsaval »

dprojects wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:07 pm if the program was made available under the LGPL license, it is valid for this version forever. You can only change next versions, and release with other type of license. But you can't say, give me money for the old version.
Not a lawyer either but I believe if you hold the copyright for the entirety of the code you can do a release of any version with whatever license you want, if you don't hold the copyright to the entire code you can only do so with the consent of all copyright holders or by removing/re-implementing all code copyrighted by others (this would be too complex for projects like FreeCAD with dozens of contributors).
But there is something other more important, respect for the rights of others. Even if you have MIT license you need to attach the MIT license to the software and you have to clearly inform who is the author. You can't say I am the author, if you are not. You can but license for brand, for distribution, for profit %, but you can't buy being author. But yes, the author can sell all rights to his product, he will be author but he can't do anything with such product.
Isn't that exactly what copyright is about? Holding the copyright to something doesn't mean you are the author or that you claim to be. At least that's how I interpret it but this is probably different depending on language and jurisdiction.

We're kinda off topic now though.
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dprojects
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by dprojects »

FreeCAD is a cluster of different libraries, each with its own license.

Code: Select all


find ./squashfs-root/ -name "*LICENSE*" | wc -l
974

find ./squashfs-root/ -name "*license*" | wc -l
64

cat ./squashfs-root/usr/LICENSE

The MIT License (MIT)

Copyright (c) 2016 Marcus Ottosson

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy
of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal
in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights
to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell
copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all
copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE
SOFTWARE.
Which also raises doubts whether they can write and decide on the license for the whole AppImage build as FreeCAD is considered. They can only do it with their own piece of code. Any developer that uses FreeCAD can do the same. In fact, FreeCAD brand only refers to the piece of code that someone has added, not to the whole AppImage build. In the same way, any person can release a version with their own code under their own brand.

adrianinsaval wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:28 pm You are modifying the program by adding a workbench, the license covers the software itself too not just it's source code. See my link to the FSF page, the people at FSF are the authors of the license so I would assume they know better than us.
Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. Workbench + AppImage? The LGPL has some restrictions but you can even modify the code legally and make it proprietary.

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Darek
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loopy
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by loopy »

Have some of you people even read the license page?

You might not like it, but it's very clear the license allows "closed-source" developers to use FreeCAD as the "base for your own application". To try and claim a closed source workbench is contrary to the intent and wording of the license is absurd.

In fact the license is very relaxed. The FreeCAD components are LGPL, and you could build a completely new application from scratch using FreeCAD components that doesn't even look like FreeCAD.


-"Closed-source software developers

You can use FreeCAD as a base for your own application, and are not forced to make your application open source. The LGPL license, however, ask for two basic things: 1) that you clearly inform your users that your application is using FreeCAD and that FreeCAD is LGPL-licensed, and 2) that you clearly separate your own application from the FreeCAD components. That is usually done by either dynamically linking to the FreeCAD components, so users are allowed to change it, or making the FreeCAD source code, along with the modifications you brought to it, available to your users. You will get support from the FreeCAD developers as long as it is not a 'one way street'. "
Last edited by loopy on Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dprojects
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by dprojects »

loopy wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:43 pm You can use FreeCAD as a base for your own application, and are not forced to make your application open source. The LGPL license, however, ask for two basic things: 1) that you clearly inform your users that your application is using FreeCAD and that FreeCAD is LGPL-licensed, and 2) that you clearly separate your own application from the FreeCAD components. That is usually done by either dynamically linking to the FreeCAD components, so users are allowed to change it, or making the FreeCAD source code, along with the modifications you brought to it, available to your users. You will get support from the FreeCAD developers as long as it is not a 'one way street'. "
Yes. But personally I don't like LGPL and any license to force you to choose exact license for your piece of code, added. I think all such licenses should be banned in open source world and developers shouldn't use them. But currently there are too much valuable software with such shity license to ban all of them.

Probably FreeCAD chose the LGPL because they wasn't sure for the license to be compliant with all those almost 1000 licenses. There are probably even more licenses in README files or macros. So this is another proof how much harm make such "non total free" license. At the end you have bunch of different licenses and even huge lawyers corporation would not be able to tell if all of them are legally compatible with each other. You should read all of them, understand and ask lawyers. This is how such licenses like LGPL destroy open source world. Finally there will be so much dependencies that anyone can be sued, and maybe this is what corporate world want.

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Darek
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workbench for woodworking is available at: github.com/dprojects/Woodworking
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adrianinsaval
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by adrianinsaval »

dprojects wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:16 pm The LGPL has some restrictions but you can even modify the code legally and make it proprietary.
Now THIS is complete nonsense! LGPL allows you to use the software as a dynamically linked library in a proprietary software, if you distribute a modified copy of FreeCAD you must do it under an LGPL or more restrictive license, please go read the license before coming up with nonsense.
loopy wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:43 pm Have some of you people even read the license page?
Have YOU even read the ACTUAL license?
https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/blob/cb96332a64db8ae855ca700212eebb0f5151230a/LICENSE#L37-L40 wrote: For example, if you distribute copies of the library, whether gratis
or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that we gave
you. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source
code.
https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/blob/cb96332a64db8ae855ca700212eebb0f5151230a/LICENSE#L150-L161 wrote:2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Library or any portion
of it, thus forming a work based on the Library, and copy and
distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1
above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

a) The modified work must itself be a software library.

b) You must cause the files modified to carry prominent notices
stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

c) You must cause the whole of the work to be licensed at no
charge to all third parties under the terms of this License.
https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/blob/cb96332a64db8ae855ca700212eebb0f5151230a/LICENSE#L215-L220 wrote:4. You may copy and distribute the Library (or a portion or
derivative of it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form
under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you accompany
it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which
must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a
medium customarily used for software interchange.
some random extract from the wiki is not above the contents of the actual license.
Last edited by adrianinsaval on Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dprojects
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by dprojects »

adrianinsaval wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:02 pm Have YOU even read the ACTUAL license?
Which one? where I can find license for FreeCAD in the AppImage? there are so many licenses... in fact there is no license in AppImage for FreeCAD.

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Darek
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workbench for woodworking is available at: github.com/dprojects/Woodworking
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adrianinsaval
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by adrianinsaval »

dprojects wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:06 pm Which one? where I can find license for FreeCAD in the AppImage? there are so many licenses... in fact there is no license in AppImage for FreeCAD.
https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/blob/master/LICENSE

Not to mention that LGPLv2 is widely available on the net
loopy
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by loopy »

Anyone can use LGPL components , dynamically link to them and create closed-source commercial software then charge money for the software so-developed.

The final answer is the published FreeCAD license page which EXPLICITLY allows closed source software to use FreeCAD components.
https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Licence

Quoting LGPL license verbiage doesn't change things. Yes, the source code to FreeCAD is LGPL, yes if you modify it you MUST publish your changes, but as long as a "closed-source" developer links dynamically to LGPL components without touching a line of the source code in the LGPL repository then that that development does not violate any LGPL license.
Last edited by loopy on Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dprojects
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by dprojects »

adrianinsaval wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:02 pm LGPL allows you to use the software as a dynamically linked library in a proprietary software
btw: so all the workbenches and macros can be proprietary, especially if they use AppImage

adrianinsaval wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:02 pm please go read the license
but the valid license is those one inside the AppImage not somewhere at the internet or somewhere in speaking by someone or in someones mind
in the AppImage there are probably more than 1000 licenses but there are no single license

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Darek
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Re: Attributing FreeCAD in workbench

Post by dprojects »

but this license is for FreeCAD source code, but you were talking about AppImage, that workbench change the software and it is not legal

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Darek
github.com/dprojects

workbench for woodworking is available at: github.com/dprojects/Woodworking
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