Manipulator WorkBench

Info about new community or project announcements, implemented features, classes, modules or APIs. Might get technical!
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easyw-fc
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Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby easyw-fc » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:12 pm

bill wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:45 pm
Just checked-out Manipulator WB for first time; NICE! :D

Very nice AdHoc/On-The-Fly (displayed) dimensioning that was missing from WFeatWB.
thx :D
bill wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:45 pm
Do you have any aspirations to achieve this type(shown below) of object MANIPULATION? This is one of FreeCADs missing links IMO!

People have been begging for this type of tool as long as I have been on the forum; and I am sure for longer then that.
Ever since Apple and Microsoft "BORROWED" this UI style/technique from XEROX PARC, It seems every other CAD-like App (heeks, rhino, autocad.......), Drawing(MacWord, msWord........), illustration (Adobe, Inkscape, LibreDraw.........), Wordprocessing, etc. tool has had THEM forever......but not FreeCAD.

If you could do this, I would certainly nomimate you as Emperor of FreeCAD!

ObjHandles.gif
Unfortunately I don't have any experience in pivy interface.. all I have done is just on standard Placement, covering some need I had for STEP interaction...
As @triplus pointed out, we have to rely on others ;)

Luckily FreeCAD, thanks to its real two Kings we all know, is a very reliable and fully customizable amazing project! :D
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bill
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Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby bill » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:13 pm

triplus wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:57 pm
It's now actually possible to achieve that. But more developers would need to be more interested to add support:
The interest should be WIDESPREAD usage of freecad; Unfortunately, you have to get a user hooked on any app, and that would be getting past the initial steep-learning-curve of using that app. Object-Handles would allow bypassing the sub-super-sonic-mathematica transformation via the combo-box-selection-slash-object-manipulation-geometric-placement-definition.

I personally prefer the, as deepsoik said once in a post, 'gyroscopic-mover-and-shaker-of-death'.

I try to expose as many people to freecad as possible; their ONLY negative response is overwhelmingly this subject; "Ive never seen that before; thats not the way everything else works".

Its just one of those personal computer staple skills that are expected; CTRL+C, CTRL+X, CTRL+Z, CTRL+Q, ETC...and OBJECT-Manipulation Handles.

Thanks, ezw for response, and keep up the good work.

BTW, I see many more than 2 kings in the hood. But they do bust their butts and keep a weather-eye(2).
Mark Szlazak
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Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby Mark Szlazak » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:15 am

bill wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:45 pm
Just checked-out Manipulator WB for first time; NICE! :D

Very nice AdHoc/On-The-Fly (displayed) dimensioning that was missing from WFeatWB.

Do you have any aspirations to achieve this type(shown below) of object MANIPULATION? This is one of FreeCADs missing links IMO!

People have been begging for this type of tool as long as I have been on the forum; and I am sure for longer then that.
Ever since Apple and Microsoft "BORROWED" this UI style/technique from XEROX PARC, It seems every other CAD-like App (heeks, rhino, autocad.......), Drawing(MacWord, msWord........), illustration (Adobe, Inkscape, LibreDraw.........), Wordprocessing, etc. tool has had THEM forever......but not FreeCAD.

If you could do this, I would certainly nomimate you as Emperor of FreeCAD!

ObjHandles.gif
Push and pull your 3D geometry:

https://youtu.be/OaMU6gEEgpU
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easyw-fc
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Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby easyw-fc » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:34 am

bill wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:13 pm
The interest should be WIDESPREAD usage of freecad;
...
Its just one of those personal computer staple skills that are expected; CTRL+C, CTRL+X, CTRL+Z, CTRL+Q, ETC...and OBJECT-Manipulation Handles.
Mark Szlazak wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:15 am
Push and pull your 3D geometry:
These request would get more attention in the UX/UI Design or in Developers corner :)

Going back to Manipulator WB, here a way to align Screws to Holes, as for a request in an other topic:
Image
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bejant
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Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby bejant » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:46 am

bill wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:13 pm
allow bypassing the sub-super-sonic-mathematica transformation via the combo-box-selection-slash-object-manipulation-geometric-placement-definition.
Mark Szlazak wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:15 am
Push and pull your 3D geometry:

https://youtu.be/OaMU6gEEgpU
The Draft WB > TrimEx tool comes close, and might also be a good start for something link that. It doesn't work on all surfaces, and doesn't have "handles", but try it out on the face of a Part WB > Cube, or either planar face of a Part WB > Cylinder...
bill wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:13 pm
deepsoik said once in a post, 'gyroscopic-mover-and-shaker-of-death'.
I might be wrong but I think that phrase originated here:
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?t=14393 (I hated that thing).
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NormandC
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Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby NormandC » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:56 pm

The problem with push & pull technology is that it defeats the whole purpose of having a parametric model ruled by sketches and features.

What's the use of constraining sketches to specific dimensions if you're going to change everything by pushing/pulling on the solid afterwards?

And once you've done such a live change, how do you ensure the size of your model from specs? Do you constantly use measures on it to make sure? Sketchup works that way, and I've always hated it. (Admittedly, Sketchup is not a true CAD program)

Push & pull, or "direct editing" is a completely different work flow than parametric modeling. They are mostly mutually exclusive.

Siemens PLM succeeded in merging both with their Synchronous Technology, but it took them many years to do it right. Considering the number of full-time paid programmers they must have, I wonder if doing it in FreeCAD is realistic.

Also, while its competitors have explored the direct editing way, Solidworks has remained feature-based parametric (like FreeCAD's PartDesign), and it's still the most used 3D CAD program in the mid-range market.
efyx
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Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby efyx » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:10 pm

NormandC wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:56 pm
Also, while its competitors have explored the direct editing way, Solidworks has remained feature-based parametric (like FreeCAD's PartDesign), and it's still the most used 3D CAD program in the mid-range market.
Almost agreed, excluding this point. Popularity of SW is thanks to piracy as I know, not because of it's way of modeling. It is outdated way of creating models and they are changing it more to direct modeling way too (there is no need to change sketch to change dimensions of solids) - I am working on SW2018 and IronCAD. For me IronCAD is 2 to 4 times faster than SW and revisions are way much easier than change on parametric assemblies of SW.
Mark Szlazak
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Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby Mark Szlazak » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:15 pm

NormandC wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:56 pm
The problem with push & pull technology is that it defeats the whole purpose of having a parametric model ruled by sketches and features.

What's the use of constraining sketches to specific dimensions if you're going to change everything by pushing/pulling on the solid afterwards?

And once you've done such a live change, how do you ensure the size of your model from specs? Do you constantly use measures on it to make sure? Sketchup works that way, and I've always hated it. (Admittedly, Sketchup is not a true CAD program)

Push & pull, or "direct editing" is a completely different work flow than parametric modeling. They are mostly mutually exclusive.

Siemens PLM succeeded in merging both with their Synchronous Technology, but it took them many years to do it right. Considering the number of full-time paid programmers they must have, I wonder if doing it in FreeCAD is realistic.

Also, while its competitors have explored the direct editing way, Solidworks has remained feature-based parametric (like FreeCAD's PartDesign), and it's still the most used 3D CAD program in the mid-range market.
How constraints are done, etc ... is in the video. IronCAD also has sketches because there push-pull tech i believe only works with features relative to axes of a frame. BUT i have not played around enough with their software ... my 30 day free pass maybe up.

Try it and see what you think.
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NormandC
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Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby NormandC » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:34 pm

I use Ubuntu at home.

Is IronCAD available for Linux?

I didn't think so.

I have no interest in installing that $%?&*( crappy Windows on my home PC. I like my precious free time too much for that.
Mark Szlazak
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Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: Manipulator WorkBench

Postby Mark Szlazak » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:00 pm

NormandC wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:34 pm
I use Ubuntu at home.

Is IronCAD available for Linux?

I didn't think so.

I have no interest in installing that $%?&*( crappy Windows on my home PC. I like my precious free time too much for that.
Oh i did not know you where part of the clergy. That group also did not look though Galileo's telescope ... or so the story goes.