Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

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FC-Architecter
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby FC-Architecter » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:03 am

GeneFC wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:40 pm
....

Ok, it was a snarky attempt at humor. :oops:

It was in reference to
chrisb wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:02 pm
and here we are again: These videos are made for 0.16 and as you should have learned from all the other video tutorials you have worked through: there was no body construct in 0.16.
All of Roland's videos are 0.16 videos. I guess allmost all video tutorials on youtube are made with 0.16 unless they state explicitely 0.17.
You have been told repeatedly, including a couple of times by me, that those old videos simply will not work the same way in FC versions 0.17 and beyond. And yet you continue to ask questions about why bodies appear in your models.

Gene
I was only aware of two events, discussed over a few posts, in which the Body discrepancy between versions was relevent:
1) in bejants tutorial 11. That problem was solved by moving elements inside an incorrectly created Body out and deleting the Body.

and 2) earlier in which my elements were outside the body in tree view, In that case, it was suggested to create another Body, which I did.
So it looks to me like these two situations actually required opposite solutions.

Can you cite any other instances?

In either case, are you implying I should not have continued to follow bejant's tutorial series? If so, what other tutorial series should I have used? Do you know of a better one?
chrisb
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby chrisb » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:26 am

Of course you can follow bejant's tutorials, they used to be the best I have seen - and perhaps still are. But FreeCAD has been developed further since then and you should make yourself familiar with the differences.
I will not lookup old posts only to prove that Gene or I or others were right with their comments. If you need it, please look it up yourself. Perhaps it is sensible anyway for you to go thoroughly through your first questions and the answers. Your FreeCAD skills should have improved now, so you might understand the meaning of the answers better.
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FC-Architecter
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby FC-Architecter » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:43 am

chrisb wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:26 am
Of course you can .... answers better.
I was answering GeneFC, but you answered. Are you 2 working together here?
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bejant
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby bejant » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:46 pm

FC-Architecter wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:03 am
are you implying I should not have continued to follow bejant's tutorial series?
For people who still want to use my tutorials, it might be best if they either
A. Use FreeCAD 0.16, or
B. Use FreeCAD 0.17 and newer, but understand that the Part Design work flow has had huge changes after my videos were made and adapt their work flow accordingly.

I consider them obsolete, but haven't searched for any newer ones. You can look for the Tutorials page of the FreeCAD wiki or in the FreeCAD help documentation, if you downloaded or installed it.


FC-Architecter wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:43 am
I was answering GeneFC, but you answered. Are you 2 working together here?
Of course - usually all the forum helpers work together here.
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby chrisb » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:49 pm

FC-Architecter wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:43 am
I was answering GeneFC, but you answered. Are you 2 working together here?
No, not "officially", but in fact we often do. We are here a community which is very responsive. That is only possible if everybody is everybodies client.
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby GeneFC » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:18 pm

I won't continue the back and forth, but I will say that the Bejant videos were the only ones I watched and worked completely when I was starting in FreeCAD. 8-)

The principles are still good; they just do not work exactly the same way in versions 0.17 and beyond.

Gene
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby FC-Architecter » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:10 am

bejant wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:46 pm
....
For people who still want to use my tutorials, it might be best if they either
A. Use FreeCAD 0.16, or
B. Use FreeCAD 0.17 and newer, but understand that the Part Design work flow has had huge changes after my videos were made and adapt their work flow accordingly.

I consider them obsolete, but haven't searched for any newer ones. You can look for the Tutorials page of the FreeCAD wiki or in the FreeCAD help documentation, if you downloaded or installed it.
...
I have finished with your 11 videos and I learned a great deal and am now moving on. I still have a lot to learn about the differences between Part and Part Design and Bodies. I am also working through the wiki pages and the AV4U tutorials.

But something here is poisoning the atmosphere.

It is appearing to me as if GeneFC and chrisb are making inappropriate posts merely for the purpose of causing trouble . I tested this in my response to GeneFC and you see the result. Both GeneFC and chrisb made similar posts: "You've been told..." "And here we go ahead." I laid out the reasons for my actions and neither of them responded, indicating to me that their comments had no constructive intent.

Chrisb has been making such remarks to me for weeks, like a neurotic masochist who complains about being hurt, but keeps coming back to my threads to complain. I would be glad not to have their comments on my threads anymore because they are interfering with my learning of FC. Their comments are not "helping" and hinder the mission of the forum.

If you have a rank-and-file member of the forum that is causing trouble, that is not problem because he can be ignored, but if a moderator is making abusive posts, it is a symptom that a forum is dying. I have seen this in other forums where the moderators continually bitched at members or where there was a small clique of abusive members linked with the admin:

HKEXPAT -- dead
GeoExpat - dying
Computer Help And Support - now gone

As a newbie I can't change this. It is up to the insiders.
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby chrisb » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:55 am

FC-Architecter wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:10 am
It is appearing to me as if GeneFC and chrisb are making inappropriate posts merely for the purpose of causing trouble . I tested this in my response to GeneFC and you see the result. Both GeneFC and chrisb made similar posts: "You've been told..." "And here we go ahead." I laid out the reasons for my actions and neither of them responded, indicating to me that their comments had no constructive intent.
You may be onto something here, but I am a bit disappointed that you focus only on what you perceived as negative, neglecting any help I gave. I didn't come back to your posts only to complain, I gave far more advice than complaints!

You may be right that the tone may be inappropriate, while I still think that the content is valid. There are two good reasons to remind people that a question has been answered before - and you asked the same questions several times:
  • On your side it should be easier to reuse a solution which you have found before than to recreate the same or maybe a different solution from scratch.
    And it is possible that due to different circumstances you didn't realize that a situation is in fact the same as faced before.
  • From my side it costs time, lots of time. As I guess that you write your post in the hope of a feedback you cannot blame me for reading them. Your posts are pretty long, often with direct follow-ups from yourself which frequently show that a couple of minutes later you found a solution yourself. From my point of view it would have been much easier to follow, if you simply had edited your last post to make clear what your questions finally are.
    And of course I'm getting upset if you seem repeatedly to ignore the advice given here without even commenting why you do so. That might explain the rough tone in some of my posts, although it is no excuse.
I want to point out that if I have to complain about something in a post I usually try to answer them anyway. I hope I have done so in your topics as well, if not I hereby beg your pardon for that.

If you say you tested us I really see this as an affront. It's not only you and me on this forum and neither am I receiving any money for my work here, nor are you paying for the service you receive. So please refrain from wasting our time.

We are volunteers here and the currency we are paid in is the feeling to help. Help people to use FreeCAD and help the FreeCAD project.
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby bejant » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:46 pm

FC-Architecter wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:10 am
I have finished with your 11 videos and I learned a great deal and am now moving on.
What do you want to do with FreeCAD in the long term? I think you have learned enough by now to model something for yourself instead of following a tutorial.

FC-Architecter wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:10 am
I still have a lot to learn about the differences between Part and Part Design and Bodies.
In a nutshell:
  • The Part Design WB is for creating only solids.
  • If in Part Design, you see that your model is not a solid, you made a mistake somewhere in constructing the model.
  • In Part Design we create a model by making Features. Some Features are created from a Sketch (Pad, Pocket, Revolve, Groove, etc.) and other Features are created by copying previous Features (Mirror, Linear Pattern, Polar Pattern, etc.).
  • A Body is something unique to the Part Design WB.
  • A Body contains a solid thing, and always only one of those solid things.
  • A Part is used in multiple WBs and can contain one or more Bodies.
    - - - - -
  • The Part WB can create models of solids and non-solids (Planes, Shells, etc).
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Re: Vid 11: Rectangle wrong plane and extra body

Postby FC-Architecter » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:31 pm

....

Thank you for responding here. I am taking your advice and creating a cylinder intersecting another cylinder. I tried staying in Part but but the Pad did not show the option of padding all the way through, so I cannot see the background. If you say below that the pad is made from the sketch then I should open Sketcher before making a pad.

The second thing I need to do is to orient the 2nd cylinder to the larger one so the sides of the smaller 2nd one are symmetrical to the larger.
Options I have considered are to
1) make both sketch and sketch001 visible,
2)then set a link to external geometry on sketch.
3)then make a symmetry constraint between sketch and sketch001

The Dependency Graph does not look good, so I think I have to delete the 2nd pad and create a new body.
NEW_MODEL_DG.png
NEW_MODEL_DG.png (21.85 KiB) Viewed 466 times
pipe_experiment.fcstd
(40.29 KiB) Downloaded 11 times
CENTER_SMALL_CYLINDER_ON_LARGER.png
CENTER_SMALL_CYLINDER_ON_LARGER.png (9.61 KiB) Viewed 462 times
....
bejant wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:46 pm
In a nutshell:
  • The Part Design WB is for creating only solids.
  • If in Part Design, you see that your model is not a solid, you made a mistake somewhere in constructing the model.
  • In Part Design we create a model by making Features. Some Features are created from a Sketch (Pad, Pocket, Revolve, Groove, etc.) and other Features are created by copying previous Features (Mirror, Linear Pattern, Polar Pattern, etc.).
  • A Body is something unique to the Part Design WB.
  • A Body contains a solid thing, and always only one of those solid things.
  • A Part is used in multiple WBs and can contain one or more Bodies.
    - - - - -
  • The Part WB can create models of solids and non-solids (Planes, Shells, etc).