[SOLVED] How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

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paullee
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Re: How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby paullee » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:30 pm

Yes @Roy_043 ! Thanks! :)

And another one @ Joyas

https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 75#p268580


Hope it helps!
paullee
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Re: How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby paullee » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:32 pm

And some of discussions by others on using Sketch as Base

https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33381
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Moult
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Re: How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby Moult » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:51 pm

I have tried to do a simple example with sketches. It works, but it requires a lot of thinking and constraining. This example shows a junction between a lift core, column, and a few different partition wall types which is very typical in high-rise residential construction.
2019-01-28-093851_950x566_scrot.png
2019-01-28-093851_950x566_scrot.png (25.18 KiB) Viewed 321 times
The file is attached.

The issue with sketches is that unlike the draft lines it doesn't have snap tools or any CAD functions. Any movements has to be done with constraints and thinking. It also means that you need to think carefully about constraints. For instance, it is better to constrain the things which are built later in construction (e.g. lining) to things which are built earlier in construction (e.g. lift core, structural slab). But of course, sometimes the things which are built earlier change ... and then you have a problem :)

I believe there needs to be either:

1. Better editing capabilities for draft wires - because currently only being able to drag and drop single vertices is very limiting
2. Better CAD functions in sketches - everything needs to be done with constraints. There isn't even a move function and no snaps!

Either solution would help, I believe.

Given the toponaming problem, which I hear sounds unsolvable, maybe better CAD functions will allow sketches to be used with less constraints and in a dumber way, i.e. less toponaming problems. Also, better editing capabilities for draft wires may mean people don't need to use sketches in the first place.
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regis
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Re: How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby regis » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:11 am

Moult wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:51 pm
The issue with sketches is that unlike the draft lines it doesn't have snap tools or any CAD functions.
Yeah that's true, initially Freecad was more of CAD/CAM software like Inventor in it's approach to modelling and was mostly geared towards mechanical modelling. So the thinking approach is very different if you want to apply that to architectural stuffs. Now if i'm not mistaken Yorik provided it with Draft and Arch over the years as he wanted to extend freecad to service the Open Source Architectural enthusiast worlds. The thing though is that, if you come from a Autocad background, freecad actually can answer your most of your 2D and 3D basic needs, because models being updated are done mostly manually 2d like fashion. This is why you don't find the kind of flexibility you are looking for that is present in a program like Revit. Case in point, compare AutoCAD Architecture and Revit. It is only over the years that Autodesk attempted to streamline a lot of the Autocad Architecture package to mimic Revit. But Revit started as a program on it's own geared towards BIM directly. So they can't really be compared. In Open Source with Freecad, every thing in this forum is an attempt to bridge all these bridges.
Moult wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:51 pm
Any movements has to be done with constraints and thinking
Yes that's the way this kind of modelling works.
Moult wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:51 pm
It also means that you need to think carefully about constraints. For instance, it is better to constrain the things which are built later in construction (e.g. lining) to things which are built earlier in construction (e.g. lift core, structural slab).
Yes you saw it wright. there could be a workflow developed between the two ways of modeling, in a way to harness the advantages of one mixed with the other and yes that means understanding a certain level of order and priority. i.e Build Main volumetric model and then later on start using tools like "link external reference" tool in the sketcher. And like you said, you must be a bit clever how you organise these because if you break the link by deleting something you'll see your model fly and spread all over the place. Something that might frustrate you into fixing.
Moult wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:51 pm
1. Better editing capabilities for draft wires - because currently only being able to drag and drop single vertices is very limiting
Yes we all agreed that enhancing these Draft capabilities is very important. I think somewhere in the forum there was conversation about actually taking all the draft capabilities of programs like "LibreCAD" or "Qcad" which are autocad like very powerful already compared to Freecad's own 2d handling. But since i don't know what's under the hood for those softs, i can't really say what was the drawback here or why it hasn't garnered much immediate interest.

By the way your model file is looking good. atlast we can view some of the things you wish to acheive and understand you better now with pics aswell. Maybe you could be the person to help introduce a newer approach to modeling that is completely similar to the way Revit handles things with snaps? :D :lol: who knows what your hidden talents have in store...
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yorik
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Re: How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby yorik » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:58 am

I'd be all for better Draft editing capabilities :D

I think most of what we need is pretty much there, if you compare with autocad... It would be more a matter of identifying certain operations that are not good in FreeCAD. One thing that I do often with autocad-likes, which is cool, is to cut through a polyline (remove a piece, for ex), then re-join it with another one. In FreeCAD ATM we have to downgrade everything, create the different segments, then re-upgrade everything.

Also I wonder if we shouldn't rename the draft wire to polyline (and add support for curved segments)
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Moult
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Re: How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby Moult » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:06 pm

Yes, I was just also coming to the conclusion that a big help would be to implement quick join / split functionality, as that would allow you to at the very least copy any base wire, make modifications, and then replace the base. Other functions are good too, but the most important is join and split.

PR for join function: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/1936

It doesn't yet have a UI icon though. I guess I might also need a UI icon for a split function when I get around to trying to code that.
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paullee
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Re: How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby paullee » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:14 pm

Moult wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:06 pm

PR for join function: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/1936
The advantage of being competent in two disciplines! :D

Other than Yorik, I think recently there are quite a numbers of person who possess both knowledge, Fruti, Moult.... helping FC to gain more features in Arch/BIM :lol:
paullee
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Re: How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby paullee » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:17 pm

Moult wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:51 pm

I believe there needs to be either:

2. Better CAD functions in sketches - everything needs to be done with constraints. There isn't even a move function and no snaps!

Either solution would help, I believe.

Given the toponaming problem, which I hear sounds unsolvable, maybe better CAD functions will allow sketches to be used with less constraints and in a dumber way, i.e. less toponaming problems. Also, better editing capabilities for draft wires may mean people don't need to use sketches in the first place.
Seems improving Draft tool receive more positive feedback; and you are implementing some new tools :)

Using sketch has quite a few issues indeed, if you still trying sketch, some thought after a quick look at your file:-
  1. Not sure how best to use sketch in laying out floor plan - though I try to put everything on 1 (master)sketch first
  2. Can put 2 rectangles in 1 sketch, turn FaceMaker in Structure (Level 1 Slab) to Bullseye, and you get the hole in the slab
  3. With same sketch, turn FaceMaker to Simple in Structure (Ground Floor Slab) to Simple, you get the slab only
  4. Use the Create Rectangle in Sketcher, all the required constraints e.g. coincidence, vertical/horizontal are added - just bear in mind to keep in view if it will be over-constrained
  5. One of the trickiest part is use of Link to External Edge. This may break your model when you edit underlying sketches / objects...
    (someone if I remember correctly indicated that this in sketch is not 'toponaming' problem - but anyway similar problem...)
  6. There maybe other ways to avoid it, Realthundar's branch should be tackling this; learn somewhere that each edge has a 'semi-persistent' tag ...
  7. ... one simpler way, still convoluted, is add a construction edge with coincidence constraint to the external edge first, delete all coincidence constraints, add block constraints to 'lock' it in same position as the external edge...
Still, it is convoluted, non-intuitive... the main advantage is use of Datum Constraints, then editing sketch / adjusting the floor plan e.g. dimension of a room / wall is much easier :D

See if anyone could make this approach better, productive...


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Moult
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Re: How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby Moult » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:42 am

Split tool implemented: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD/pull/1936 Join tool improved to be able to join many lines all at once.
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Re: [SOLVED] How do I split / explode a wall / draft wire?

Postby Moult » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:36 pm

I also blog about 3D rendering, architecture, software and other on thinkMoult.com. RSS / Atom feed available for your convenience.