BIM workbench UI discussion

A forum dedicated to the Draft, Arch and BIM workbenches development.
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1D_Inc
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby 1D_Inc » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:17 pm

yorik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:33 pm
Amazing job with icons, 1D_Inc! There is already a support for different icon themes, I'll have a look at how we can integrate yours.
That mockup took for about 6 hours, proper icons requires much more efforts.
Anyway, it will be nice to try them on)
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regis
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby regis » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:43 am

1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
Well, it's total faillure.
There is no any need in it, so it was drawn by someone because... why not, instead, for exaple, of improving T panel, that is still the best solution on market.
Ribbon in 2.8 - as it was expected - took the place being wasted most of the time.
I'm open to check out a mock-up version of your proposal here. But have you been using Freecad? if yes how long and for what purpose?
1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
Thank you)
Yes, I wrote the reason why we are against monochrome icons in 2.8 there
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/colour-co ... 4?u=1d_inc
However, more different mockups is better, it can inspire a solution one day.
Indeed good link and various good points, We are all looking for the fine tuned solution.
1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
"intelligent" ribbon that "predicts" what the user wants
It is hard to predict user demands, so that doesnot work like this almost anywhere.
Ribbon works in very primitive way - showing context tools.
Please Yorik can you provide us with a better Idea of what you mean here by intelligent ribbon? I have a feeling you might be onto something here.
1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
but FreeCAD is that kind of a software, that just don't allows to enter to it, especially if you know other softwares and workflows from AutoCAD to GIMP.
Hmmm how do you mean here?
1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
BIM workbench can change situation, but there is no even timelapses over internet, that can uncover and show entire FreeCAD BIM workflow process to make user at least to start to use it.
Hmmm you haven't checked out some of the content we've already published pretty carefully. And I think you should acquaint your self abit about the history of Freecad, where it came from, and how it has been evolving. That would give you a better idea of why and how it functions the way it does. Once you are familiar with that you will realize the logistical effort that has been put in there already to get it to where it is. Also I don't think it's fair to compare Freecad to other softs in this manner. Autocad does it's thing, Blender does it's thing, no one is asking blender to become like Freecad or to do exactly what Freecad does, (which is can't anyways that's why Freecad is there). Freecad is also not Revit, nor any of those programs. It has it's natural way of evolving. Frustration is good as it invites new solutions, little means to create big impact (impact at scale). There is alot i'm frustrated with, but i take the time to learn it, adapt it, and then i can see what is fundamental that needs to change.
1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
So, you are talking about icons grouping and redesign, but there is even no data for the base - workflow process research.
Hahaha, Bruce lee once said "be water my friend", so I think you should let the spirit flow. What ever is out there that you can get is what it is my friend. People who love this soft and are invested in it do what they can, how they can, when they can and they are going to be willing to guide you through some of the relevant information that is available, if it's not available someone who is knowledgeable will let you know. And generally if you want to take it upon urself to also assist in it's dev-op then you'll know what to do. But in general the community is growing which means more folks with good ideas and skills to help evolve things.
1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
There is no common general understanding of the process, everyone interprets in his own way.
Once again i'll advice you to be like bamboo bruce lee. It is good everyone interprets it's it's own way, that's open source, different background, ideas, cultures, experiences etc etc. Ofcourse if some ideas are too far out of context, some of us who understand the main direction will intervene. But overall it's laissez faire, you have an idea, you hide in u'r bunker, hash it out, show the world/community, if all like it, we talk on how to implement, if none agrees, the idea gets to sleep until someone crafty enough can revive it. I think it's a perfect way of handling the creative juices required to provide free-cad with its uniqueness at this level.
1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
In CG workflow design terms you are building roads without roadmap, guys.
Yes and no here. Once again yes because it's all a good flow of creativity and generally people come with their interests, so you can't push someone as if you were in a commericial setting. It's already hard enough to force push creativity. No because most of us are hidden "proffessionals" in a certain "AEC" field. So we can create and do often have various roadmaps, but they are not expressed in the way that you might expect. And not for general purpose since it's not the affair of everyone. Some people come to freecad from like you say, CGI point of view and expect to have the soft behave as such when it was not intended for that.
1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
When I designed baroque modeling workflow, I made timelapses videos to analyse how and what is going on every step during the process, and what needed to be simplified or improved.
Now, tools that was written as a result of such analysis makes possible to me to make baroque models for joy, in opensource, using mouse and gamepad, lying on a couch, while in commercial packages it is still kind a... work.
There are examples of Freecad doing the same thing a swell. That is showing how to model Architectural stuffs, mechanical stuffs, etc, in the best way possible giving the current capacities and limitations of the program.
Now I have a general feeling that you have not really known freecad that well yet, however people who can still create tools are working hard on it. And also the purpose of this conversation is again to start refining alot of these ideas.

Thanks for the revit video. Now if you ask my opinion, the guy is just toying around. This kind of video is good to show you how to create such generic shapes, but is that really the work that Architects do? is that really what you need to submit permit drawings and get going building a proper building that meets Code and regulations? There is alot more here that I can tell you are not aware of. That's why it might be very tricky for you to percieve Freecad in the proper light of what the AEC folks are trying to do with it. Otherwise you would see alot of architects drop Revit and migrate to blender. So far that's not the case.
1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm
Making such a thing will be a good point to start from.
:lol: :lol: no comment.
paullee
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby paullee » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 am

regis wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:15 am
paullee wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:41 am
Whilst thinking about Window, Stairs, Frame ... another idea (to extreme?) is 'Profile Generator'.
Yeah you are deadly spot on, The question of Generators has been on my mind aswell. A seperate Icon style? for these? for example, i've been playing with qgis, and there is a need to create Contours maps that can either be used in Freecad directly, or exported as DXF and imported into Revit and other programs, so definitely at someone point when we'll have the ability to look into this more closely we'll call it Contour Generators?
And then another one i've kind of breifly talked about with @microelly is the Patern Generator, This can be very powerful and can start helping address some of the hatch issues we have aswell. More on this later probably on a different topic, but i'll leave you with a video link of how Archicad handles it. It's beautifully powerful.
Thanks for the video, just have done a few minutes, start to understand what you mean :)

Anything you and microelly could be read about the Pattern Generator?
paullee
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby paullee » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:55 am

1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:53 pm

Example for workflow analysis
[video]
Thanks for videos, inspiring :)
paullee
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby paullee » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:56 am

regis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:43 am

Hahaha, Bruce lee once said "be water my friend",.
Young generation still know Bruce and know what he said? :D
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regis
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby regis » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:57 am

paullee wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 am
Anything you and microelly could be read about the Pattern Generator?
Oh no we just had a video conference on the matter. I intended to create a general post to expose the idea when I have time. "time time time right". Like a new post where I show the current ideas in freecad and we can carry on from there. Since microelly is really knowledgeable in thiese complex code creations for modelling I thought it good to address it with him first before getting too tangentially excited. I've been wanting to handle the hatch problem in freecad for a while now. And that pattern generator offers much more. Our talk was interesting. He seems to have already had some beautiful sparks of ideas in his mind. Just looking for a time when he is more available to get down to further business.
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microelly2
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby microelly2 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:18 am

paullee wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 am
Anything you and microelly could be read about the Pattern Generator?
The main task to get a pattern generator is:
How to model boundary conditions for curves and surfaces.
starting with a Draft the boundary conditions make a structure repeatable in 2 or 3 dimensions. There are different but only a finite number of such configurations to repeat pattern for example for wallpapers.
Each of this configuration has another set of boundary conditions. So my question is how can I transform a set of curves in a system which makes the borders dockable. I played last weeks with surface models - there are some first results for minimum surfaces: gyroid
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33837

I will start a thread if there is something useful to see .
paullee
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby paullee » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:51 am

microelly2 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:18 am

The main task to get a pattern generator is:
How to model boundary conditions for curves and surfaces.
starting with a Draft the boundary conditions make a structure repeatable in 2 or 3 dimensions. There are different but only a finite number of such configurations to repeat pattern for example for wallpapers.
Each of this configuration has another set of boundary conditions. So my question is how can I transform a set of curves in a system which makes the borders dockable. I played last weeks with surface models - there are some first results for minimum surfaces: gyroid
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33837

I will start a thread if there is something useful to see .
Thanks! Noted that discussion but it is too difficult for my level so skipped :) BTW impressive geometry !

I'm just simply thinking how to offset a pattern :oops:
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 42#p285442

Better see what the masters do and learn :lol:
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regis
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby regis » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:52 pm

A pretty good example of how Libreoffice created it's own ribbon. They call it the "notebook bar". I like how they give you serveral default options to choose from. That's real open source flexibility.
phpBB [video]
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regis
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby regis » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:43 pm

1D_Inc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:48 am
Finished my mockup.
It took some time to guess colored light theme)
Attaching SVG if it is interesting.

FreeCAD_Icons_FIN.png
A few useful links
http://tango.freedesktop.org/ArtLibreSet
https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/index.p ... ui_Command
[wiki]http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon ... Guidelines[/wiki]
http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon ... Guidelines
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