BIM workbench UI discussion

A forum dedicated to the Draft, Arch and BIM workbenches development.
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1D_Inc
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby 1D_Inc » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:47 pm

regis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:43 pm
A few useful links
A gorgeous link collection. Thanks)
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1D_Inc
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby 1D_Inc » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:16 pm

regis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:43 am
But have you been using Freecad? if yes how long and for what purpose?
Personally, I do not know anyone who knows or uses the freecad in principle, despite the decades of work in the industry.
Nice to know you are existing)
As CG workflow designer I can learn and improve concept of any kind of software, as it already were with autocad, blender, GIMP, and some other, but there is a typical problem of experienced user, that we all facing daily, and you may know about.

Your knowledge is easy for you.

Since you know some software of programming language, or rised some skill, it becames easy to you, and you forgetting all that way you've spent to get it, that totally burns shortcut bridges from your start to your knowledge, making everybody after you follow the same hard way.
That's why freecad users are so rare. Being forced novice allows me to see critical errors in marketing and reasons of such high threshold of entry.

You may got a question - why do I donating freecad monthly all this time, even if I don't use it?
That's pretty much easy question - if you want to have opensource BIM realization one day, there are two ways - create, or support existing.
Easy, right?

That's the main problem - not me, not anyone I know don't want or need freecad currently, so I have some wish to make it wanted and needed.
And, as you may know, there is much left to do.
triplus
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby triplus » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:09 am

1D_Inc wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:25 pm
Well, Ribbon is nice example of bad design. Mostly it is useless GUI, that annoingly holds 1/5 of screen for nothing.
Blender's 2.79 UI has got the best realization of ribbon at the moment - they made it vertical and called T panel.
It allows to have hundreds well described tools and addons in T panel, and also allows to use them on demand by showing/hiding it, that brings awesome fullscreen.
BIMMenu.png
BIMMenu.png (17.62 KiB) Viewed 331 times
To reserve more screen space for other purposes. ATM i guess one possible solution is BIM workbench utilizing command panel in menu mode.
Also - some joy - Quick Freecad icons redesign in Blender 2.8 style)
FreeCAD_Icons_06-02-2019.png
Note that you could create an icon pack. One example:

https://github.com/pgilfernandez/FreeCA ... eme_simple
1D_Inc wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:56 pm
yorik wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:50 pm
keyboard shortcuts is a though one, basically there are so many tools in FreeCAD that it's a problem using single-letters shortcuts (you see that many other apps have the same problem and use the same solution...).
Yep. Only AutoCAD PGP-based console shortcut system can solve this.
Actually single key and per-workbench shortcuts are becoming reality:

https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 60#p231862

Currently user can already define the same shortcut in different workbenches. Workbench like Arch and/or Draft therefore could in the future provide simple key combinations for commands by default. What happens when you combine such commands in "meta" workbench. One possible solution is to use the ShortCuts overlay feature (currently set as Shift+Q) and therefore put them there. End user therefore doesn't have to learn two different shortcuts schemes. Using the same command in Draft or in BIM workbench.

yorik wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:46 pm
However, the idea of the BIM workbench is exactly to be a "meta" workbench. That is, not to have any tools on its own (they should all be part of their respective workbenches, drafts in draft, archs in arch, etc), but to try to make things more friendly and intuitive for the user.
From time to time i have been thinking on how we could repurpose Complete workbench. This is one possibility.
regis wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:15 am
How do I check it out? Please include some pics aswell for those of us visual oriented, it makes life 50% more appreciative :lol:
Tabs.png
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Install TabBar module for FreeCAD (Tools -> Addon manager), restart FreeCAD and move the tabs to preferred location.
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1D_Inc
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby 1D_Inc » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:04 am

triplus wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:09 am
To reserve more screen space for other purposes. ATM i guess one possible solution is BIM workbench utilizing command panel in menu mode.
That's a complex question. Basically, tool buttons are needed to learn software abilities at start, then user remember them as shortcuts in case if he is going pro, so user permanently needs all of them, on none of them. Solution like this can fit addons, for example.

triplus wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:09 am
Note that you could create an icon pack. One example:
An excellent example, thank you!
Btw, interesting why they are so heavy. There is a lot of unused gradients inside SVG files, looking like trash.
Is there any kind of specifications or rules on creating icon pack, considering SVG structure?
triplus wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:09 am
Actually single key and per-workbench shortcuts are becoming reality:
https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 60#p231862
Yep, it is possible for program defaults. However, as a rule, CAD programs quickly become overgrown with modules and addons.
I 've got hundreds in B3D, about a thousant in autocad, Revit just made integration with dynamo to hold all this creativeness there.
Will it possible to create custom workbench based on template or shortcut presets, and hold it somewhere?
This how it looks in B3D. If expanded, there are 7 screens of tools to scroll:
B3D_1D_Scripts.png
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regis
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby regis » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:30 am

1D_Inc wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:16 pm
Personally, I do not know anyone who knows or uses the freecad in principle, despite the decades of work in the industry.
Nice to know you are existing)
Yeah Freecad is a peculiar and unique niche I reckon. That's why it takes some nerves to get invested in it. And that's why most who are invested are very protective of it.
1D_Inc wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:16 pm
As CG workflow designer I can learn and improve concept of any kind of software, as it already were with autocad, blender, GIMP, and some other, but there is a typical problem of experienced user, that we all facing daily, and you may know about.
1D_Inc wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:16 pm
That's the main problem - not me, not anyone I know don't want or need freecad currently, so I have some wish to make it wanted and needed.
And, as you may know, there is much left to do.
Indeed, in anycase, we do appreciate your contribution and outreach. Perhaps in the nearest future you'll be able to develop workflows in freecad that are more useful and attractive to the CG industry.
triplus wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:09 am
Install TabBar module for FreeCAD (Tools -> Addon manager), restart FreeCAD and move the tabs to preferred location.
Thanks it worked pretty well.
triplus wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:09 am
From time to time i have been thinking on how we could repurpose Complete workbench. This is one possibility.
We need to start sketching ideas and layouts. Perhaps a "Call to layout sketches and redesign proposals?" First sketches or rough drafts, can be hand drawn if well explained or can be done with Inkscape or gimp? for slightly more refined idea direction? Let's create a separe thread for a Call to layout sketches proposal.
triplus wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:09 am
Actually single key and per-workbench shortcuts are becoming reality:

https://forum.freecadweb.org/viewtopic. ... 60#p231862
I really like this development.
triplus wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:09 am
To reserve more screen space for other purposes. ATM i guess one possible solution is BIM workbench utilizing command panel in menu mode.
I also like this development, It can be handy also in compact mode UI?
Screenshot from 2019-02-09 00-12-27.png
Screenshot from 2019-02-09 00-12-27.png (17.85 KiB) Viewed 313 times
Yeah there is something cool about this aswell.
Screenshot from 2019-02-09 00-12-40.png
Screenshot from 2019-02-09 00-12-40.png (37.49 KiB) Viewed 313 times
We need to start getting some concrete stuffs down. We need to start sketching ideas of how to reorganise the main window to account for all of this. So far it works well on my end but it's not really optimal yet, i suppose that will come in time.
Screenshot from 2019-02-09 00-27-10.png
Screenshot from 2019-02-09 00-27-10.png (124.34 KiB) Viewed 313 times
1D_Inc wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:04 am
Will it possible to create custom workbench based on template or shortcut presets, and hold it somewhere?
This how it looks in B3D. If expanded, there are 7 screens of tools to scroll:
I think this should be possible.
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby 1D_Inc » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:51 pm

triplus wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:09 am
Note that you could create an icon pack. One example:

https://github.com/pgilfernandez/FreeCA ... eme_simple
I watched it through and made single compilation file with all dark icons, with proper 48x48 grid, to use it for drafting redesign.
Also garbage has gone, so now it is 1.5Mb SVG file instead of 100Mb in previous collection.
Here is ZIP if someone also interested in resedign.
I use Inkscape, there is ability to setup 48px shift on arrows, in prefrences.
ZIP_Preview.png
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yorik
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby yorik » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:36 pm

Your skills with svg are pretty impressive :shock:
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regis
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby regis » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:03 am

Indeed not bad with the svg's

Here is something interesting, seems there is a visual there that looks like a command pannel, aswell as the ribon on top. And the interface doesn't feel like an eye sore.
maxresdefault (1).jpg
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby 1D_Inc » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:41 am

regis wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:03 am
Indeed not bad with the svg's
Thanks) That were preparations. There were made nice iconworks already, but functions some of them a bit hard to recognize without a signature.
regis wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:03 am
Here is something interesting, seems there is a visual there that looks like a command pannel, aswell as the ribon on top. And the interface doesn't feel like an eye sore.
Here Rhino visually is looking like Sketchup with A2 toolset.
https://softculture.cc/images/gallery/4 ... ce02-1.gif
It's not legacy ribbon (automatic context), it's kind a toolpanel with big icons and tabs - solution to place all palletes in single 1.5 row.
FreeCAD has got the same, the only difference - there is workbench selector instead of tabs.
Can't say tabs are better than selector, because there is no need to see it's content every moment, unlike, for example, current layer in AutoCAD, because it influences on drawing process. There is no need to see all this "Solid tools" dockets all the time, especially, if to take in accont, they doubles some menu items, that's looking a bit confusing.
rhino tabs doubles.png
rhino tabs doubles.png (41.75 KiB) Viewed 260 times
Sketchup has got legacy panels only (no context), so, it's always needs a bigger boat monitor.
FreeCAD's (manual context) solution is looking more accurate at the moment.
SKP.png
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Last edited by 1D_Inc on Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
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regis
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Re: BIM workbench UI discussion

Postby regis » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:49 am

1D_Inc wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:41 am
Sketchup has got legacy panels only (with no context), so, it's need a bigger boat monitor.
FreeCAD's manual context solution is looking smarter at the moment.
Yup, Sketchup is an eye sore. Freecad at it's current is by far better than that.