OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

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dave_w
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:37 am

Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by dave_w » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:26 pm

drmacro wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:49 pm
I don't get conflicting constraints selecting as you did. But, that is because I have (in the Solver messages pane) "Auto remove redundants" checked.
Aha! There is a configuration. After checking the box, I get what's expected. That checkbox also conformed to the invisibility principle. That is, unless you understand what it is, you don't see it. Thanks! That clears that up.
drmacro wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:49 pm
Some notes:
- I always select the points, then the thing that I want them centered around. In your case the vertical axis line. (Hint: If, you want the box centered around the origin, select the upper left, lower right and the center origin point.)

- If there is a horizontal or vertical constraint on a line, I dimension it with the length length_dim.png dimension. A horizontal/vertical HorVer_dim.png dimension implies a horizontal/vertical distance between the end points of the line. (note: I don't know if it makes any difference, but it is my personal preference. Well, and I think can in certain instances...)

- I usually avoid the lock constraint, though it is a quick way to get a dimension in both axes.

- avoid using the line Line_icn.png function because it is difficult to get every end point coincident. So, I tend to use the rectangle or polyline. With the later, when done adding lines, I then select the first point and last point and add a coincident constraint. (A hint: if you make two over lapping rectangles or overlapping other shapes, then the "trim edge" will automagically add coincident points at the cut.)
The rest of your note makes sense and I believe I've been using FreeCAD that way so far.

Thanks drmacro!

Dave
dave_w
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:37 am

Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by dave_w » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:33 pm

chrisb wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:56 pm
dave_w wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:50 pm
At first I didn't see the conflicting constraint. Once I did, I could delete it and move on. But why was it created?
Symmetry of two points to a line implies in case of the line being vertical that the points are horizontally on the same level. Thus the horizontal constraint is redundant. The same just vice versa holds for vertical lines.
Tutorials show this same sequence shifting the rectangle to the center line.
These are old tutorials, where the solver did not show the message. I discourage to remove the redundancies automatically, because you may not really understand how constraints work. In my (slightly outdated) Sketcher tutorial this is explained in some depth, and I recommend to always watch the solver messages. For me it is a small victory every time the number of degrees of freedom decreases. If an error is shown you should react immediately.
Thanks Chris. That explains the why. BTW I did read your Sketcher tutorial.

Things are starting to make sense. I can no do things I couldn't do 2 days ago. I'm sure I'll have to come back here to you experts, but for now (today?), I don't have anything that is a complete roadblock.

Thanks to all.

Dave
dave_w
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:37 am

Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by dave_w » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:18 am

Arrrrrgggghhh! This just makes no sense.

I created a body, padded it then added a pocket, of course, < size of the pad.

Then experimented with fillets. I could fillet each of the 4 internal corners at 1mm, but only 1 at a time. That added 4 fillets inside the pocket.
Seems I should be able to do all 4 at once, but I'll keep going.

Then I filleted the outer 4 corners at 3mm. I did these all at once, though it only worked if I rotated 3D so each edge was visible, then ctrl-clicked. Still not a complete roadblock.

Looking at my drawing, I wanted to see what it would look like if I increased the fillet on the internal corners. So I rotated in 3D then selected one fillet. The internal fillet is highlighted, but in the Model window the 5th fillet for the outer corners is highlighted and under properties the radius is 3mm. ???

If instead I double click on the first fillet I did on the internal corners within the Model window, it opens the Tasks tab. The radius is 1mm as I set it. If I change it to 2mm, then all the external *and* internal fillets disappear except that one fillet which is 2mm. Yet if I go back to the Model tab and click on each of the 4 internal and 1 external fillets, each is correct in the property window.

The property window and the drawing do not agree.

Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09PTmd7dLrI

This is completely baffling. It certainly is NOT intuitive and to the noobie me, it looks like an improper operation.

Bottom line is, I have to believe I'm doing something wrong, but I am (again) clueless.

Ideas?

Thanks (again, and again, and again). At least I can listen to Metallica, Soundgarden, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and a bunch of other good rock while sheltering-in-place and waiting for help. (Oh geez, I hope you all out there are able to stay safe and healthy!)

Dave
dave_w
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:37 am

Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by dave_w » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:27 am

Wow! I just went back to that body and selected Fillet, Fillet001, Fillet002, and Fillet003 one at a time, then changed the property to 2mm.

And that worked.

Headset going back on. Volume going to max. Gonna blow my brains out with Pink Floyd.

d.
chrisb
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Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by chrisb » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:30 am

dave_w wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:18 am
Looking at my drawing, I wanted to see what it would look like if I increased the fillet on the internal corners. So I rotated in 3D then selected one fillet. The internal fillet is highlighted, but in the Model window the 5th fillet for the outer corners is highlighted and under properties the radius is 3mm. ???
I can try to explain this: What you see in 3D view is the last state of your model. It includes all previous changes. If you click on a certain fillet - or on any other thing in 3D view - you still click on the last state. You can well make the previous state visible by selecting it in the tree and whereever you click then, it is always the previous state which is selected.
For editing it is sufficient to go the way you found already: it is sufficient to select the fillet which should be changed in the tree.
You need at least FreeCAD 0.19.23300 to edit my current sketches.
A Sketcher Lecture with in-depth information is available in English, auf Deutsch, en français, en español.
freedman
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Location: Washington State, USA

Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by freedman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:23 am

I presume you are at that stage of learning where your brain is recording all the issues it does not seem to like. I understand that fillet placement/usage could be better but I think just accept that situation and forge on, you will find later that there are a few ways to produce them.
To give you an example of why I say this:
I have a design where I worked on all the sketching and design for over two hundred hours. I didn't need to think about fillets or drafts until the very end because of all the complexity of the model. If I then need to spend a few extra minutes making fillets then it means very little to me. Perfect Fillets and Drafts are difficult for all CAD programs, FreeCAD is weak with them but normally they will work.

Just my opinion....
Last edited by freedman on Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
drmacro
Posts: 2327
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:35 pm

Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by drmacro » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:18 pm

dave_w wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:18 am
Arrrrrgggghhh! This just makes no sense.

I created a body, padded it then added a pocket, of course, < size of the pad.

Then experimented with fillets. I could fillet each of the 4 internal corners at 1mm, but only 1 at a time. That added 4 fillets inside the pocket.
Seems I should be able to do all 4 at once, but I'll keep going.
Hmm...ctrl-click the 4 corner (inside edges) proceed to fillet...
(Hint: an easy way to ctrl-click the internal edges is to switch to wireframe view.)
Then I filleted the outer 4 corners at 3mm. I did these all at once, though it only worked if I rotated 3D so each edge was visible, then ctrl-clicked. Still not a complete roadblock.
Hmm...that's the way it works when filleting edges, you select the edges you want to fillet. (See above wireframe hint.)
(Hint: Don't go wild, lots of edges load down the engine and potentially cause unsolvable conditions (which as noted is a weakness of most modeling engines))
(Hint: sometimes it's useful to select a face and fillet. For example, if you wanted to fillet the bottom of the box to the sides.)
Looking at my drawing, I wanted to see what it would look like if I increased the fillet on the internal corners. So I rotated in 3D then selected one fillet. The internal fillet is highlighted, but in the Model window the 5th fillet for the outer corners is highlighted and under properties the radius is 3mm. ???

If instead I double click on the first fillet I did on the internal corners within the Model window, it opens the Tasks tab. The radius is 1mm as I set it. If I change it to 2mm, then all the external *and* internal fillets disappear except that one fillet which is 2mm. Yet if I go back to the Model tab and click on each of the 4 internal and 1 external fillets, each is correct in the property window.

The property window and the drawing do not agree.
As chrisb notes you are simply looking at the properties of a different part of the tree.

I can't make out much of what is taking place...but, that's just me. :oops:
This is completely baffling. It certainly is NOT intuitive and to the noobie me, it looks like an improper operation.

Bottom line is, I have to believe I'm doing something wrong, but I am (again) clueless.
Hmm...baffling, probably. But, I'd say part of the normal learning curve. ;)
Personal anecdote: I've learned many software tools over the years. In particular, CAD software. In many cases (try learning LibreCAD when you're an AutoCAD guru... :shock: ), I had to un-learn what had been common usages in one but not another. :roll:
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."

My beginners, written treatise: Learning FreeCAD
dave_w
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:37 am

Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by dave_w » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:08 pm

chrisb: OK, I hear what you're saying. When I click on the fillet in the 3D model, the fillet is high-lighted. It would make more sense to me if that fillet was shown in the property tab. Fortunately for all of us, I'm not developing FreeCAD. :D

drmacro: I could not find wireframe view. I can select the 4 inside corners in the 3D window. When I do, all 4 are high-lighted in a different color. But when I select the Fillet icon, I get a Vertex label under Fillet parameters and then an error message saying fillet is not possible on those shapes. If I do one at a time, then no problem.

I'm reaching the point where instead of closed bridges, I'm driving down 1 lane roads. Not roadblocks, just slow moving. So I'm going to try to cut down my posts and quit pestering you guys. I am amazed at how much effort you've made to help me. I am way more appreciative of your help than I could explain in this post.

Best regards,

Dave
drmacro
Posts: 2327
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:35 pm

Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by drmacro » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:57 pm

dave_w wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:08 pm
chrisb: OK, I hear what you're saying. When I click on the fillet in the 3D model, the fillet is high-lighted. It would make more sense to me if that fillet was shown in the property tab. Fortunately for all of us, I'm not developing FreeCAD. :D

drmacro: I could not find wireframe view. I can select the 4 inside corners in the 3D window. When I do, all 4 are high-lighted in a different color. But when I select the Fillet icon, I get a Vertex label under Fillet parameters and then an error message saying fillet is not possible on those shapes. If I do one at a time, then no problem.

I'm reaching the point where instead of closed bridges, I'm driving down 1 lane roads. Not roadblocks, just slow moving. So I'm going to try to cut down my posts and quit pestering you guys. I am amazed at how much effort you've made to help me. I am way more appreciative of your help than I could explain in this post.

Best regards,

Dave
In the typical layout of the FreeCAD window in the upper left there is this icon (circled in red):
View_icn_ann.png
View_icn_ann.png (17.41 KiB) Viewed 180 times
Click the little gray down arrow to get a list of view styles. Or use the keys: V 3 for wireframe, or V 1 to get normal view.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock: "...His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."

My beginners, written treatise: Learning FreeCAD
dave_w
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:37 am

Re: OK, I'm Stuck... Complete Newbie

Post by dave_w » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:15 pm

drmacro wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:57 pm
Click the little gray down arrow to get a list of view styles. Or use the keys: V 3 for wireframe, or V 1 to get normal view.
Got it. Thanks!
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