Feature suggestion

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vidiot

Feature suggestion

Postby vidiot » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:42 pm

It´s more a "most wanted" from me.
3D PDF creation!

I know there are ways with freewaretools like meshlab and some others - but not very conviencing.
I used such a feature with Alibres free Xcad - and it´s just cool.

If you´ve ever opened a 3D PDF and turn parts invisible or rendered in different kind (wire, flat, shaded and textures),
you might never touch anything else to exchange ideas.

The idea behind my suggestion:
Freecad is able to read in Step and of course is able to make some parts depending on it´s own features.
But if in the final PDF a "made with freecad" is visible wouldn´t that just push the interest?
I´m sure it would fit in some workflows - because this is expensive stuff today!

Maybe it´s to early to think about such stuff - but someday it could be to late.

Greetings
Harald
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jriegel
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Re: Feature suggestion

Postby jriegel » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:48 pm

Such formats a very cumbersome, they are most likely protected by patents and Adobe will not be amused. They earn a lot money with the tools to
create.
On the other hand why a viewer if you can use a free and open source CAD system to view? ;)

Jürgen
Stop whining - start coding!
rockstar1707
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Re: Feature suggestion

Postby rockstar1707 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:32 am

Just a remark about 3D objects in PDF.

I have no idea how it is with the patents etc. but I know that Asymptote (http://asymptote.sourceforge.net/) has pretty good support for this. A good example is this document: http://www.math.ualberta.ca/~bowman/pub ... syTUG3.pdf (caution, due to embedded 3D stuff it may take long to load).
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Re: Feature suggestion

Postby wmayer » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:13 am

I have checked asymptote: it's licensed under the LGPLv3 and is also in the Debian repositories.
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Re: Feature suggestion

Postby letexier » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:17 am

PDF is now ISO32000 but the 3D content should be also, in a near future, an ISO norm.
But now we don't have a "full" free implementation (even in Asymptote) to read & write 3D PDF contents.

Of course, when we talk about PDF3D, it is PRC (Brep geometry or/and triangular meshes) and not the old ("has been") U3D...

Just in case you want to know more on these "keyword":
* "Toward Truly Open Standards " (http://blogs.adobe.com/mfg/2009/08/towa ... dards.html)
* "PDF-PRC and ISO 10303 (aka STEP)" (http://blogs.adobe.com/mfg/2009/08/pdf- ... _step.html)
* PRC ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRC_(FileFormat) )
* Universal 3D ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_3D )
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Re: Feature suggestion

Postby jriegel » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:10 pm

Hi Letexier,
I browsed through the documents. Very interesting.

Im not quit the same opinion with the Adobe blog. It conflicts surely with STEP!
Its the same race as ODF and OfficeXML or Flash, Silverlight. The big companies use
the standard bodies to push "their" format, instead using existing ones...
Why they just simply embed STEP or the other "Open standard" OpenJT??
If there is a FOSS lib for that we will use it! But I wont use my spare time
implementing an Adobe standard...

Anyway, I seen so many 3D standards come and go! I still have no use case
for a "3D Viewer"? A technical drawing you can print and give away to
manufacture. But what with 3D data? If you whant to go CAM or FEM you
better give the CAD data set. To show FEM results? You make a movie or
use a Post processor?

I will always relay on solid non company owned standards like STEP, SVG,
VRML.... The only PDF interesting for me is PDF/A1 for long term archiving!

Jürgen
Stop whining - start coding!
letexier
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Re: Feature suggestion

Postby letexier » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:12 pm

Hi Jürgen

> The only PDF interesting for me is PDF/A1 for long term archiving!
I agree with you. That's why, IMHO -even if ISO32000 is an ADOBE standard -, PDF/PRC is good for CAD...

> Why they just simply embed STEP ...
It should be far much better to "support" STEP and promote needed extension !
But ADOBE buy TTF to have all their CAD importers, and now ADOBE use the TTF PRC file format.

Paul
vidiot

Re: Feature suggestion

Postby vidiot » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:11 pm

Some years ago I remember some people who were sure that PDF will never be a success.
I was in the crowd of those who never thought about STEP being a success, though ;) (back in 1995 or so...)

Jürgen, you are right about Data Exchange - if somebody´s going to work with the data, - he need to consider getting
the Step file or (better) a copy of Freecad.

But for all those people trying to share the ideas of their developers (marketing people and others) it might be more than
helpful to get an 3D Adobe file were they can easily make parts visible and invisible, change the viewpoint or the rendermodus.

Why would it help? It might wake some interest on Freecad - so my point is also a marketing one.

I do see how many things work with free software today - especially when it starts from a stick :evil:

Open Office is used on MS -(Word/ PP and Excel) documents, because of it´s better ability to export to PDF.
Freemind is nearly a standard.
And there are others which would make the list long.

I can imagine Freecad beeing used in smaller and larger companies for an ability like 3D PDF creation alone.

But honestly - in the long run it might be used because of it´s ability/price tag anyway.

I keep my thumbs pressed.

Greetings
Harald
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Re: Feature suggestion

Postby letexier » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:59 pm

Hi Jürgen

Just some news about PDF:
- For PDF/E (containing PRC), an ISO Working Draft is available http://pdf.editme.com/files/PDFE/SC2N570-PRC-WD.pdf.
- For PDF there is now a GNU project http://gnupdf.org.

Imagine documention with 3D Brep produced by FreeCAD...
But, I have not yet found some library to produce PRC files from a C/C++ application :( .

Thanks for your attention
vidiot

Re: Feature suggestion

Postby vidiot » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:45 pm

In the current release of c´t magazine (No. 23) there is also an article. I assume the germans here read it anyway.
(If not available at home, - it can be read in 2-3 min. @ the kiosk).
Mainly about PDF/A - mentioned here already - but nevertheless interesting.
PDF seems to be the successor of TIFF for longtime archival storage.

So is foreseeable that this is valid today for CAD drawings and also for 3D models in the future (o.k - thats just guessing).